Author Topic: Nurnberg? Pewter Plate Help  (Read 12453 times)

ironlord1963

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Re: Nurnberg? Pewter Plate Help
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2009, 08:01:40 am »
Thanks Sapphire, I had no ideal the use of the double eagle in judism.  When I get home from work today I will check out the sites, thanks for all of you keeping me on my toes  ;D.  I just read in a couple of books about the rariety of old pewter, then after I look around a bit on Ebay under 18th century pewter, there was several items, and many even I could afford. looks like I will have to learn a bit more stilll.  MMMM boiled crow tonight.  :-\

Dean Perdue

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Re: Nurnberg? Pewter Plate Help
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2009, 12:59:28 pm »
Sapphire thanks for those links. One of them had a very similar eagle that was listed as eagle of the Holy Roman Empire just as Skinny mentioned earlier,although the symbol on the plate doesn't have the crowns.

Here's a link to German eagles that showed a double headed with no crowns similar to the one in question.Looked like the coat of arms of the German Confederation to me.
Seems like the eagle is a widely used symbol that many countries and faiths use.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Germany

Ironlord, don't think about any boiled crow.My thoughts were exactly along the same lines as yours and nothing is sure on this yet.
I got this thinking, OK I like it regardless of it's age,can't find another one, and if it's old it's just a bonus.If I see another one for sale for $9.99 then the jokes on me.It's always great to hear different points of veiw and thats what makes this forum an effective learning resource.
Anything you could share of importance from your readings on old pewter?

There does seem to be affordable and high end old pewter on ebay. Don't know exactly what makes a pewter piece affordable or expensive though.
Here's one on ebay that I came across yesterday that has a high price tag.

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-German-Patin-Nuremberg-1619-Communion-Dish_W0QQitemZ190339788238QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAntiques_Decorative_Arts?hash=item2c5122adce

Thanks again all for the help.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 03:23:58 pm by Dean Perdue »

Skinny

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Re: Nurnberg? Pewter Plate Help
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2009, 01:52:08 am »
It does look spot on like the coat of arms of the German Confederation, which came to be after the Napoleonic Wars, a bit later than 1775. That doesn't mean that this couldn't be from 1775 though. The Eagle symbol was used by many family's and cities in Germany as part of their coat of arms, not to mention the Emperors.  I might hypothesize that this particular rendering may have came about just as a general depiction of the eagle for the German people. It lacks the more specific coat of arms elements of some of the others I've seen from that time, the ones that represent the Aristocratic family's etc. This design may then have been chosen (later on) by the German Confederation. That makes since to me. A sort of vague Eagle coat of arms that represents everybody (in the style of a true confederation). In truth, Germany had long been a confederation, many states very loosely ruled over by the Holy Roman Emperors, particularly since the end of the Thirty years war in the 1600's.

Anyway, I think it's a nice piece. I wouldn't doubt that I low balled it at $125. I guess I don't really know squat about the value of something like this, authentic, reproduction, or otherwise.

Dean Perdue

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Re: Nurnberg? Pewter Plate Help
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2009, 02:32:50 am »
Great info Skinny.

It seems that the web doesn't have too much specific history on this time period,or I'm not looking in the right places.

I was wondering that very point, about this eagle being listed according to Wikpedia as the one used starting with the German Confederation in 1815.
It's facinating how this symbol ties in with the the Holy Roman Emporer.Any idea what the two heads represent?

Also you mentioned that you did see the word Norimbergia is Nurnberg.I would love to know is this in book?All I could find are about three things pertaining to this word refering to Germany and none being clear cut as to if this was Nurnberg.

Thanks for all the help and sharing your knowledge.

cogar

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Re: Nurnberg? Pewter Plate Help
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2009, 04:24:00 am »

KC

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Re: Nurnberg? Pewter Plate Help
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2009, 10:47:18 am »
Okay my 2 cents...I do believe that this was produced the 20th Century.  Majority of pewter is molded (then hand finished if needed).  However, stamped leaded pewter has been made.

This piece seems to have a "catalog number" on it  - catalogs of wares w/catalog numbers were/are very commonplace from 19th and 20th Century pewterers.  They are traditionally simple stamped numbers of three, four or five digits - usually under the name of the maker. 

I have seen Norimburgia used in brand names so many times over the years such as bullets/shells (Marke Elefant von Norimbergia & Marke Panther von Norimbergia)

We have seen this name come across this site before....but my memory fails me as to whether it was 3 months ago...6 mos...etc.  We have also seen many pewter plates come across this site.

The double-headed eagle has been produced & reproduced & reproduced.... extremely popular due to it's "look" and historical nature.

They were typically made for cupboard or wall display.  (Especially the leaded ones.)  However, many people use them for breads, crackers, etc.

Just for grins I put in double headed eagle pewter plate norimbergia and this came up....but you can't find it on the site.  (Superpages Shopping: Pewter Plates 5th one down - sounds like yours!).
I'm from the South - but please don't mistake my Southern Manners/Accent/Charm as a weakness!

Dean Perdue

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Re: Nurnberg? Pewter Plate Help
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2009, 12:18:31 pm »
Yeah Cougar many different double heded eagles for sure.Thanks for those links.

KC thanks for your take and I don't doubt it but sure would like to know for sure.
 
I have seen that antique shotgun shell maker mark when I was searching the web under Norimbergia.
What gets me though,is that if this Noriombergia appears in brand names so many times how come there is so very few results when searched on the web.At least that I could track down I didn't see one product.

Even if it was mentioned on a forum,ebay,a sellers ad,historical information,ect...,wouldn't it show up.
I would think if its a common maker that would be the case.That to me is the mystery on this one.

As mentioned earlier I dont doubt or believe anything on it's age till I see something to establish a fact.
Not really expecting it to be old but if it is that is nice.

Ironlord and yourself make great observations and valid points. Just trying to find out this things origin for sure though.

What leads me to believe it is modern is Ironlords comments about condition.On the other hand it was for decorative use.

What gives me some thoughts for it being somewhat old is:
The fact of it's very nicley detailed(up close you can see the pupils in the eyes)and in general I don't see quality in modern items.
Very heavy.
Out of round and somewhat wavy on the rim area.
Measurements are exactly that of a known example from this time period.

Well I guess it might be wishful thinking but I really don't have much in the way of fact to prove or disprove the age at this point.

I'm thinking that the 1775 is a mold number but don't know.

Tried to look at Superpages and can't find what you are describing.Any way you could give a link so that I can contact them for a photo so I can know for sure?

Thanks

« Last Edit: October 07, 2009, 12:54:25 pm by Dean Perdue »

Dean Perdue

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Re: Nurnberg? Pewter Plate Help
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2009, 12:29:00 pm »
Came across a exellent page from Britannica on antique pewter and other metals with some mention of, as Skinny said pewter manufactuing in Nurnberg.
Takes a second to load though.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/377708/metalwork/74021/Pewter
« Last Edit: October 07, 2009, 12:31:02 pm by Dean Perdue »

Skinny

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Re: Nurnberg? Pewter Plate Help
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2009, 02:57:09 pm »
When I had put the word Norimbergia into a search engine, it came up with a German language Wikipedia page about the German town of Norimbergia. I hit the translate key and the word Norimbergia translated into the English name for the town, Nuremberg. I don't know where this "Nurnburg" stuff is coming from. Is that just another spelling for Nuremberg? The Germans call their country Deuichland ( I probably badly misspelled that) and we call it Germany, so many of the towns have different names in German also. Dean, I say, if you want to believe that this is from 1775, go right ahead ;D! A real expert could prove or disprove that for sure, but until then.....


 

sapphire

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Re: Nurnberg? Pewter Plate Help
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2009, 04:20:04 pm »
Okay my 2 cents...I do believe that this was produced the 20th Century.  Majority of pewter is molded (then hand finished if needed).  However, stamped leaded pewter has been made.

This piece seems to have a "catalog number" on it  - catalogs of wares w/catalog numbers were/are very commonplace from 19th and 20th Century pewterers.  They are traditionally simple stamped numbers of three, four or five digits - usually under the name of the maker. 

I have seen Norimburgia used in brand names so many times over the years such as bullets/shells (Marke Elefant von Norimbergia & Marke Panther von Norimbergia)

We have seen this name come across this site before....but my memory fails me as to whether it was 3 months ago...6 mos...etc.  We have also seen many pewter plates come across this site.

The double-headed eagle has been produced & reproduced & reproduced.... extremely popular due to it's "look" and historical nature.

They were typically made for cupboard or wall display.  (Especially the leaded ones.)  However, many people use them for breads, crackers, etc.

Just for grins I put in double headed eagle pewter plate norimbergia and this came up....but you can't find it on the site.  (Superpages Shopping: Pewter Plates 5th one down - sounds like yours!).

KC, don't know if you're aware, but when you use terms to search such as these and you get some hits, but can't find the reference......usua lly due to too much to skim through or it's from a page no longer 'visible'.......go back to the original hit, look for the word Cached following the listing.  Click on that and it will highlight some/all of the searched terms and often bring up 'old' pages.

For some reason it won't let me copy and paste the link highlighted Superpages Shopping page here, probably too long.

Give it a try!

It is the link to the original ebay listing for Dean's plate. ;)


ironlord1963

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Re: Nurnberg? Pewter Plate Help
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2009, 04:52:50 pm »
Sapphire you are letting out your secrets   ;D

sapphire

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Re: Nurnberg? Pewter Plate Help
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2009, 05:01:02 pm »
Shhhhh, actually it's a 'family' secret............. my daughter taught me!!   :D

KC

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Re: Nurnberg? Pewter Plate Help
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2009, 10:32:31 pm »
Try this one.....I think you will find it looks like your and will probably like the price tag it sold for!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230358501750

Thanks Sapphire....I tried that earlier and it didn't work...but today my computer has been a little haywire. 
I'm from the South - but please don't mistake my Southern Manners/Accent/Charm as a weakness!

Skinny

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Re: Nurnberg? Pewter Plate Help
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2009, 02:48:30 pm »
Try this one.....I think you will find it looks like your and will probably like the price tag it sold for!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230358501750

Thanks Sapphire....I tried that earlier and it didn't work...but today my computer has been a little haywire. 

I think that IS his plate, so we'll hope he likes what it sold for!

Dean Perdue

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Re: Nurnberg? Pewter Plate Help
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2009, 05:49:46 pm »
KC- Thanks for your time for posting the link off Superpages shopping so I know now there is not (as of yet) another one on the internet.I guess time will eventually tell though.

Skinny-I think Nurnberg vs Nuremberg is the German spelling. I've always wondered why we in America and some other countries refer to Deutschland  as Germany too. Just like Munchen is Munich.
Maybe so that it's easier to pronounce in our language.

I want to thank everyone for all the great help and insights.