Author Topic: UPDATE: What Can You Tell Me About My Native American Mirrors?  (Read 15601 times)

sapphire

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Re: What Can You Tell Me About My Native American Mirrors?
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2009, 09:17:53 am »

Douglas County Historical Society

In 1854 Douglas County was established at the western end of Lake Superior and the town of Superior was named the center of county government. A local historical society was founded that same year, operating under the name of the Superior Historical Society until 1934, when the group's name and mission was changed to include all of Douglas County. In 1963, the Douglas County Historical Society moved its collections to Fairlawn Mansion, the grand home built by lumber and mining baron Martin Pattison in 1890. In 2002, the Society relocated to another historic building in Superior - the 1925 Vasa Temple. One of the Society's most significant holdings is the David F. Barry Collection of photographs and related artifacts. Barry was a photographer who documented Native Americans, military forts and battles, and Buffalo Bill Cody's Wild West Show in the Dakota Territory in the 1880s and later settled in Superior.

http://www.douglashistory.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=108&Itemid=156

Pictured here is part of our

David Barry Display.

This famous frontier and pioneer photographer helped preserve the pictorial history of the old West with photos of The Custers, military officers and enlisted men, military forts, the little Bighorn Battlefield in Montana, and also Buffalo Bill Cody with his Wild West shows. Without his camera images, much of the photographic record of the people, places and events of the past would be lost to us today.

talesofthesevenseas

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Re: What Can You Tell Me About My Native American Mirrors?
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2009, 10:32:55 am »
I located the descendants of David Frances Barry the photographer on Ancestry.com and I have sent a message trying to find out if any relatives or descendants of his ever lived on Fairway Drive in San Jose California. If so... Holy @$&#!! Talk about a "Roadshow Moment!"
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D&b antiques

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Re: What Can You Tell Me About My Native American Mirrors?
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2009, 12:11:16 pm »
 ;D Tales my Older brother is jealous. he is and indian collector, and I might add own's a real cigar store indian.

Dean Perdue

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Re: What Can You Tell Me About My Native American Mirrors?
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2009, 12:43:22 pm »
Some people look at my mirror and think it is just junky! It is very battered. For me it has just been one of those antiques that I know will be with me throughout my life. Funny how that happens, huh?

Good luck on the provenance for this interesting item.
Hopefully this tuns out well so you can say 'What Now' to the people who called it junky.

talesofthesevenseas

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Re: What Can You Tell Me About My Native American Mirrors?
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2009, 01:26:46 pm »
D & B tell your brother not to get too excited yet, it still seems unfathomable to me that any relations of D.F. Barry could not have known what this mirror was and would let it go at a garage sale. This may all be wishfull thinking on my part.

I am trying to reach my mom to see if she remembers the first names of our neighbors. If she does not remember I can also check the phone directories at our local genealogy library and go from there. I had hoped to be able to access the 1970 census records online, but it doesn't look like the later ones are available online, although I believe I can order my own information and we should see the Barry's info right next door on the same page. This shouldn't be too tough.

D.F. Barry does have a family tree on Ancestry.com and I looked through that. He never had any children from the looks of things, but he did have a whole bunch of brothers and sisters. I suppose it is possible that one of these siblings was either our neighbor or had a child or relation who was our neighbor. We didn't know them very well and I remember them as being elderly.

Fingers crossed, more on this ASAP.
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talesofthesevenseas

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Re: What Can You Tell Me About My Native American Mirrors?
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2009, 04:19:44 pm »
Nope, it's not the same family. Our neighbor was A. Chandler "Chan" Berry, spelled with an E.

So I guess what I have is an 1880 - 1900 traveling or shaving mirror that someone decorated with a Sioux portrait. Still cool :)
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Skinny

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Re: What Can You Tell Me About My Native American Mirrors?
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2009, 04:53:29 pm »
If you could get some good provenance the value would go up some more, although I don't see you selling something you've had for so long. Very neat and unique idem!

talesofthesevenseas

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Re: What Can You Tell Me About My Native American Mirrors?
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2009, 04:59:18 pm »
Oh I'm not selling it, I just wanted to learn what it is because it has fascinated me for so many years. I could still try to contact the descendants in the Berry framily to find out who owned it.
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cogar

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Re: What Can You Tell Me About My Native American Mirrors?
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2009, 05:44:11 am »
Nope, it's not the same family. Our neighbor was A. Chandler "Chan" Berry, spelled with an E.

Tales, don't let the difference in the spelling prevent you from further research.

Ya gotta remember that there were many, many more "spelling changes" made in names by County Clerks, Circuit Clerks, etc. than there ever was by approval by a Judge.

Back in the 19th and first half of the 20th Century there were still many, many people who could not read or write and when they got married, bought property, got arrested, etc. ..... and was asked what their name was and how to spell it, .... "DUH", they didn't know how to spell it. Especially many of those who migrated West toward California. So, the person writing it down on a Legal Document had no way to check or verify family references for the correct spelling, ..... thus spelled it however he/she wanted to ...... and forever after that was how that person name and all of his decendents's name was spelled.

Many such variations in names was due to the Nationality/heritage of the Clerk writing it down. For instance, my ancestral name is German, circa 1600, spelled with a “K”, Koger. But somewhere along the way in the late 1700's or1800’s an Englishman in America spelled it with a “C” and changed the “e” to an “a” making it Cogar. And there are other spellings but their origins are all the same.

D&b antiques

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Re: What Can You Tell Me About My Native American Mirrors?
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2009, 07:42:16 am »
Cogar you are so right. I have more ''Spelling's'' to my last name to a point I'am not sure what is correct.

talesofthesevenseas

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Re: What Can You Tell Me About My Native American Mirrors?
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2009, 08:08:53 am »
This is true on the spelling, but looking at the photographer's family tree, there's no indication of this family being part of it. I do have an inquiry in to the family, so I'll see if that turns up anything. But there's really no reason to think the neighbor's family had any connection to Buffalo Bill, at least at this point. The show was so popular, I could see where an artist who had no real affiliation might be inspired to paint the Sioux. I guess the thing to do would be to track down this family and see who it belonged to.
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talesofthesevenseas

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Re: What Can You Tell Me About My Native American Mirrors?
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2010, 12:20:42 am »
I wanted to post a follow-up on this topic. I think I may know who one of the two portrait subjects are on this mirror. I posted photos of the portraits on a Native American forum, and asked if anyone recognized them. It looks like the artist may have based the male portrait on this photograph of Wolf Robe of the Cheyenne. Take a look:

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waywardangler

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Re: What Can You Tell Me About My Native American Mirrors?
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2010, 12:39:14 am »
The model may have come from this colored postcard of Wolf Robe.  Notice the peace medal in the card and photo of Wolf Robe.  The mirror shows the neck strap but leaves out the medal.

talesofthesevenseas

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Re: What Can You Tell Me About My Native American Mirrors?
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2010, 10:45:32 am »
Yes, I really think the guy who directed me to Wolf Robe nailed it- The loose strands of hair at the back of his head match, the vest, the neckerchief with the slide to hold it, the lines on his face and the profile. A few tiny differences, but it really looks dead-on. I had not noticed the Peace Medal strap, but you're right, it's there caved in lightly. I think there are enough matches to this photo that I am comfortable saying it is Wolf Robe.

I think it certainly adds a nice bit of provenance (maybe value too?) to the mirror and I will find a nice history on him and put it with the photo and will keep both with the mirror. I'm really excited to know who he is after carrying him around with me through thick and thin for more than 40 years!

Now the next question is, who the woman is who is with him? I suspect that since the artist worked from a photograph of Wolf Robe, that he also worked from a photograph of the woman. Maybe she will also turn out to be Cheyenne, maybe she was a wife, or a prominent woman, or just was a subject that the artist liked.
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sapphire

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Re: What Can You Tell Me About My Native American Mirrors?
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2010, 08:10:16 pm »
http://www.indigenouspeople.net/wolfrobe.htm

Chief Wolf Robe

Wolf Robe, a chief of the southern Cheyenne Indian tribe, appears above in a photograph taken in 1909. During the late 1870s, Wolf Robe's tribe was forced to leave the open plains and relocate on a reservation in Oklahoma.

Additional information from Ken West, artist:
"Wolf Robe is a Southern Cheyenne and is believed to be the one whose profile was used on the "Indian Head Nickel" Although several different Indians were originally chosen, Wolf Robe is the one most likely used because of the striking resemblance.

The Cheyenne were divided into two groups, the Southern Cheyenne who were located along the upper Arkansas River and the Northern Cheyenne who were located at the headwaters of the Platt River.

In 1864 a group of peaceful Cheyenne were massacred by U.S. Military forces at Sand Creek, Colorado. In 1876 the Cheyenne joined the Sioux and defeated Col. George Custer at the Battle of the Little Bighorn. In 1877 the Cheyenne surrendered and were relocated to "Indian Territory: which is present day Oklahoma.

In 1990 the total number of Cheyenne descendants was about 11,000 many of whom still live on reservations in southwestern Oklahoma and southeastern Montana."

 ;)