Author Topic: chandelier from 2nd & American St. Philadelphia  (Read 5450 times)

greenacres

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chandelier from 2nd & American St. Philadelphia
« on: November 14, 2009, 06:58:22 pm »
This Chandelier we got from a property on 2ND and American St's.It was black and unkempt. I don't think anyone knew what it was. We brought it home and used lemon juice. The wiring is on the outside. I think it was made in Philadelphia. I think this was a common brand. Was it Cornelius & Co.?
« Last Edit: November 14, 2009, 07:02:55 pm by greenacres »
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KC

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Re: chandelier from 2nd & American St. Philadelphia
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2009, 12:16:42 am »
Cornelius & Baker in Philadelphia made gas lighting in 1800's.  Maybe that is a makeover and the wiring is on the outside?

http://www.americanclassical.net/antiques/cornelius%20co.html
« Last Edit: November 15, 2009, 12:21:32 am by KC »
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greenacres

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Re: chandelier from 2nd & American St. Philadelphia
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2009, 12:23:11 am »
yes, it's as if they hadn't figured out hot to run it in the center yet, so it's woven in and out the arms let's say.
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KC

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Re: chandelier from 2nd & American St. Philadelphia
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2009, 12:24:49 am »
Cornelius made gas fixtures.....so updates were done with electrical wiring!
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greenacres

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Re: chandelier from 2nd & American St. Philadelphia
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2009, 12:32:36 am »
So do you put the time period around 1915 or so. I felt it was brass because it cleaned up so well with the lemon juice.
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KC

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Re: chandelier from 2nd & American St. Philadelphia
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2009, 11:20:04 am »
From what I can find out Cornelius & Company was the name from 1839 - 1851
                                    Cornelius & Baker was from 1851 - 1869
                                    Cornelius & Sons 1870 to 1887
                                    Cornelius & Hetherington 1887 to 1888
                                    Cornelius & Rowland (Robert) 1888 to 1891
                                    Cornelius & Rowland 1891 and dissolved in 1900.

http://books.google.com/books?id=eCATAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA420&lpg=PA420&dq=cornelius+%26+sons+philadelphia&source=bl&ots=EP_uLcYvqN&sig=BiuPXPuku3fl9kpCKJCjMkxmQLA&hl=en&ei=lDMAS6eaBY3-nAf-x42ZCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CBcQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=cornelius%20%26%20sons%20philadelphia&f=false

Their pieces were used all over the US and are still in existence in many historical buildings (senates) and homes.  They won awards all over for their brass work and bronze coatings.  They were the first to develop and produce zinc fixtures during the 1850's.

http://books.google.com/books?id=OY_o8YXKg8QC&pg=PA269&lpg=PA269&dq=Cornelius+lighting+zinc&source=bl&ots=XnW14OUyny&sig=EAZEqHb5Hp6nsOuDdUoYrxXr-aw&hl=en&ei=qjcAS4n1GcuFnQf094Ae&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Cornelius%20lighting%20zinc&f=false
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talesofthesevenseas

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Re: chandelier from 2nd & American St. Philadelphia
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2009, 12:48:37 pm »
Very interesting the way there are threading holes for the wiring! Beautiful!
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cogar

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Re: chandelier from 2nd & American St. Philadelphia
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2009, 01:08:38 pm »
yes, it's as if they hadn't figured out hot to run it in the center yet, so it's woven in and out the arms let's say.

Greenacres, nice looking chandelier.  But one has to inspect one of that vintage pretty close sometimes to determine if it is all original. There were chandeliers that burned candles, kerosene, natural gas, electricity and both natural gas and electricity. And the electrified ones were not produced until after 1882. But, it took many years before electricity was common even in the large cities and many of the old chandeliers were then converted.  

Now I can tell from the picture that yours has been re-wired, and that’s the way they were wired, but that doesn’t mean it was converted. (If  it was mine I would re-wire it with clear plastic coated "speaker" wire and you would never notice it was there). Anyway, the only time you will see one of them with the wiring “hidden” is when the “arms” of the chandelier are made out of tubing, aka, the old natural gas tubing. The factory kept the same design of the natural gas light only replaced the burner with a light socket and ran the wires through the gas line.

greenacres

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Re: chandelier from 2nd & American St. Philadelphia
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2009, 02:05:53 pm »
Thanks, We were thinking of having it done. When we hung it up it was so old one of the bulbs started to smoke so we took out the bulb.The bulb was stuck and we caefully removed it. Now it's fine, but it's not in my dining room. I have it hung were I do my research, and have my other antiques I've collect thru our property restorations. I have the original chain that went with it. The links are flat not like today, and they are engraved with a pattern. :D
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syl

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Re: chandelier from 2nd & American St. Philadelphia
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2009, 02:23:35 pm »
That is a very nice chandelier but I believe it was made to be electric from the start. The wire comes down through the middle to the lower section and then it splits to the individual lights. I think it was designed and built that way. It probably is early 20th century. My 2 yen.

greenacres

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Re: chandelier from 2nd & American St. Philadelphia
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2009, 03:45:44 pm »
maybe this is better. There's a tube in the center.
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KC

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Re: chandelier from 2nd & American St. Philadelphia
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2009, 04:28:32 pm »
I agree with the others on so many points.  I was just narrowing in on Cornelius & Company.  Where on your piece does it say the name? Can you post a pic?
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greenacres

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Re: chandelier from 2nd & American St. Philadelphia
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2009, 06:23:19 pm »
I'm not sure where to look? It was taken from a house that is about 120 years old. The style looked from pictures similar. That was my original question because I wasn't sure.
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KC

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Re: chandelier from 2nd & American St. Philadelphia
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2009, 11:45:30 am »
I do believe that this was around 1900 to 1910 from the looks of it and that it was was electrical.  The best source of US lighting history that I have found to show people from the website is this link.

http://www.craftsmanoutdoorlighting.com/us-lighting-history.html

The best place to find markings is on the plate that attaches to the ceiling and or on the inside of the main pieces from which all the ornamentation extends out from...but I wouldn't take it down just to do that if you are not familiar with it.
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greenacres

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Re: chandelier from 2nd & American St. Philadelphia
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2009, 04:33:51 pm »
I was practically swinging (lol) to get a good look, but I probably would have to loosen the top piece. Thanks for the web site, I going to take a look. I really want to take it down and totally fix it up. I'll get to it.
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