Antique Bell. Or not.

[hosman321]

I just won this item on Ebay. I paid $25 with shipping. I know it's not always the greatest idea to buy an "antique" without touching it. But I figured that if it was a fake, at least I didn't go broke and it'll look cool with my other antiques anyways. I just can't find any information about it anywhere online. Some things to me suggest it is old, and some suggest it's very modern. Has anyone ever seen this bell anywhere?
Suggests it's old:
1. Very "sloppy" looking craftsmanship. Lots of imperfections that look like they were made during assembly. Easy to fake, I know.

2. Very "rubbed" appearance. It looks like it has been handled extensively over many years, the features are really worn and smooth.

3. Imperfections that look like they are from age. Such as tiny chips in the metal on the soldier's hat.

Suggests it's modern:
1. The screw used to hold the soldier to the top of the bell looks pretty new. The slot on top of the screw is somewhat off center and imperfect, but the threads themselves look really shiny. I guess there's a possibility someone replaced the screw? The wire holding the knocker also looks newer.

2. Some of the black color flakes a tiny bit from the knocker when I hold it.

3.There is a seam down the side of the soldier and down the side of the bell knocker inside. There isn't a seam down the side of the bell. The seam on the side of the soldier and knocker are not straight and are also fairly sloppy. I don't know if they used molds way back when but I just thought it looked odd.

I won't be terribly disappointed if this bell isn't an antique. But I would love if it was at least from the early 1930's or older. I'm really curious about it's history! Thanks for any input!

[regularjoe2]

I'd tend to also look for a 'wear ring' from the clapper , on the I/S surface of the bell , as well as signs of 'wear polishing' on the bottom of the bell (semi-shiny or absent patina) , where is sits .
File/sandpaper marks on the bottom of the bell are good 'tells' too .

These might be indicators of actual continued use , or lack of same .

Is it a bronze bell , with a cast iron 'clapper' ?

[hosman321]

The bell was listed on ebay as cast iron and I think it is. It's very heavy for it's very small size. There isn't much wear on the clapper itself or where the clapper strikes. But maybe it's just that the metal is so solid and heavy?

On the bottom ridge of the bell (where it sits) has file marks. It's not nice and smooth. It looks like maybe a tool was used to cut it while it was being made. I was looking at that also. Here's the description from the Ebay Listing.

ANTIQUE REVOLUTIONARY WAR BELL. MADE OF CAST IRON. ALL ORIGINAL! 5" X 2 3/4". GOOD CONDITION AND GREAT WORKING CONDITION. NO CHIPS OR CRACKS ECT.. VERY MINOR WEAR FOR ITS AGE. NO MISSING PARTS AND NO REPAIRS MADE.  RINGS LOUD! WOULD MAKE A GREAT CHRISTMAS GIFT FOR A COLLECTOR! USA BUYER WILL PAY S/H $5.95, AK AND HI WILL BE HIGHER.
 

[Dean Perdue]

Suggests it's old:
1. Very "sloppy" looking craftsmanship. Lots of imperfections that look like they were made during assembly. Easy to fake, I know.

I would think just the opposite, that is in general, the modern repro's have poor craftmanship.JMO and far from being an expert.

Does the coarseness of the casting sand give any clues?

Hope it does turn out to be what it was advertised as.

[hosman321]

Yeah, I'm leaning both ways with the sloppy thing. Modern or Antique? Maybe I should word it as...primitive? Crude? Not sloppy. Not necessasarily like somebody didn't care or it was not lovingly made. More like it just isn't as crisp as something brand new. I am 50/50 on the authenticity of this bell. I really wish I could find a website or a list somewhere of common revolutionary war reproductions. I'd love to see a picture of this exact one somewhere. Whether the news was good or bad.

[Dean Perdue]

I am 50/50 on the authenticity of this bell. I really wish I could find a website or a list somewhere of common revolutionary war reproductions. I'd love to see a picture of this exact one somewhere.

If you can't find web sites for repro's can I suggest looking for web sites that offer authentic examples and use them for comparison.

[cogar]

From what I can see it looks to me like it is a repro of an old one. I say that because of the mold “flashing” on the bottom of the clapper. I don’t think the “old timers” would have shipped that out without grinding that off.

[D&b antiques]

The screw slot. would be off centered, in a hand made screw. the slot could be twisted due to over tightning weak metal also.

[regularjoe2]

A magnet will certainly clear up the question about any parts being steel or cast iron .

The sellers' claim that there have been 'no repairs' made might just mean 'repairs made by the seller' , so it would only be a semi-lie (kinda like semi-pregnant?) .
Dissimilar metals often react to each other (such as a steel machine screw & cast iron) over time : if the screw is the original one , the threads would not be shiny , as you've described it to be .
The wire and clapper look new also .

It's not unusual to see file marks remain for long periods of time (on 'contact surfaces' of cast iron) , since it's really quite abrasive and will normally wear down a surface it is on (quicker that it gets worn down) , however -
Clear file marking indicate hasty manufacture to me , and are mostly atypical of older craftsmanship .
Also , as others have commented , non-removal of metal 'flash' indicates the same as above .

I'd call the crastsmanship 'Rough and hasty' .


I'll be merciful , and refer to your little bell as a 'fantasy' item .

[D&b antiques]

I have to agree. I was just leafing thru a Hobbys Magazine. dated 1954. Excellent article on antique bells. there castinging's were excellent.

[Dean Perdue]

Ask for your money back stating it was misrepresented.Let me guess no refunds offered.
Paypal should help you out if there's a problem with that.

Don't let sellers like this get rich off of deceit.
If seller don't cooperate give him the negative that's rightfully deserved.

I'd be embarrassed offering something like this and using the keywords "All Original & Antique Revolutionary War Bell". All worded so there's loop holes for him.

Don't let this crap go on.

[D&b antiques]

I was under the impression ebay had cracked down on selling ''Junk'' I suppose it's still up to the people too beware.

[regularjoe2]

It also never hurts to do a bit of emailing back & forth , asking such questions as : "What is the source of your information on this item?" etc , when not buying in person .

Having a printed record will often throw off the bogus sellers , or cause them to fail to reply .

Just thinking out loud here .

Antique collectors (and dealers) will sometime make a 'Wall/Box/Drawer/Shelf of Shame' for items 'bought wrongly' ... I know quite a few with these displays/collections .
Got one myself , and it serves to remind me of all the stuff I don't know (even if my brain says I do) .

As you mentioned , your item will look cool with your other antiques , so it's not a real big deal , hosman321 .

[D&b antiques]

I sold a Fire King Ashtray,about a year ago thru ebay. it was considered ''Rare'' and of course it was sold to a person in japan of which I expect to see it back here on the Market reproduced& sold as rare.

[Dean Perdue]

Antique collectors (and dealers) will sometime make a 'Wall/Box/Drawer/Shelf of Shame' for items 'bought wrongly' ... I know quite a few with these displays/collections .

Please do not go there.
Only take me to happy places.