Silver spoons......age?

[sapphire]

Another bit of handed down treasure.  

Three demitasse spoons (I think) by RYRIE BROS.
As they are Canadian made I can't really use the British letter dating to figure out their age.  Wondering if
anyone (ironlord??) can lend their expertise or searching ability.

Have hunted down Ryrie and came up with this info.  It pretty much boils down to
these quotes.....

http://www.silversocietyofcanada.ca/sites/default/files/Ryrie.pdf    (Very interesting history of the company)
"The Mail and Empire reported February 5, 1905 that Henry Birks and Sons of Montreal had secured the lease of the Boisseau building, 4 doors north of Ryrie Bros., on Yonge and Temperance Street. Subsequent negotiations brought about a merger of the two firms. Ryrie Bros. Limited was incorporated beginning of 1905............... .....It served relatively unchanged for many decades, 1924 the firm changed it's name to Ryrie, Birks Limited and in 1933 the amalgamation of Birks, Ellis and Ryrie Limited took place."

http://www.justinteeantiques.com/news.html
"Ryrie Brothers was a jeweller established in Toronto in 1897 and was taken over by Birks in 1905.  They sold hollowware and some flatware under the name Ryrie until 1914 and Ryrie-Birks until 1924 but apparently did not have their own facilities for manufacturing silverware."

http://www.silvercollection.it/AMERICANSILVERMARKSRDUE.html
"RYRIE BROS - Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Founded in 1879 by James Ryrie. In 1897 Ryrie Brothers was incorported. From 1914 to 1924 the firm marked its products Ryrie-Birks and afterwards Henry Birks & Sons "

So is it likely that the markings would date the spoons to 1914 or earlier ? And if earlier, is there any way to determine when?

[sapphire]

Well I think I found the answer to part of my question.

http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19623&sid=689ab28c6a3bea3e50276866be7861f0

"The origins of the Ryrie Brothers business start in 1854 with the jeweller John Segsworth. James Ryrie who was born in Toronto on the 21st April 1854 and whose father came from Scotland, was apprenticed to Segsworth in 1870 and after completion of his term stayed on with his old master and later became manager of this business. After three years of managing, Ryrie purchased the shop from Segsworth and never looked back. The Ryrie Brothers business was absorbed by Birks in 1904 but continued to trade under the former name until the Toronto store was re-labeled in 1924 as Ryrie-Birks."

So even though my spoons read Ryrie Bros. they quite possibly were made after 1914.

Towards the end of the page (link above) the mark of Ellis & Co. is shown.  An anchor, an "E" and a lion.  Having just discovered the
anchor/lion combination relates to Birmingham, Eng. and having read that Canadian silversmiths 'borrowed' the marking system....I can
only assume the "E" stands for Ellis.......so likely the "R" on my spoons represents Ryrie?

For anyone interested in china, crystal, silver, dresser sets, etc. I came across three awesome online catalogues from the Ryrie Bros. 1905,
1921 and 1922 displaying their wares.  I noticed Coalport, Minton and others in the china and familiar patterns in the crystal and silver. While
they were a Canadian company I imagine quite a bit of their lines were imported as the company grew to be the largest in the country.  I'll post
the links to those in the info section.

[talesofthesevenseas]

Beautiful Sapphire!

[ironlord1963]

Cool Stuff for sure,  I started looking in my books, but mostly all I have is American Silver, and Silverplate stuff, English stuff still make me head go  , let alone Canadian  .   Thanks for the knowledge and helping us all to learn.  You are really great at this stuff sapphire, my hat is off to you.

[sapphire]

Guess this means I'll soon have to open that cedar chest that's near full to the brim. 

Finally found lots places to look, thanks to everyone here and their help and encouragement.

[winffup]

Close but not quite

http://www.silverpattern.com/ELLIS%20STERLING%20SILVER%20PATTERN.htm

[sapphire]

winffup, thank you!  Think my eyes had started giving out.....know my brain had. And more than 'close'  Seem
to be very minute differences, but possibly due to when they were produced??

I remembered that Replacements had an Old English listed for Birk's and it's near identical. Towle's is also there.
There is Ellis-Barker, but not showing that pattern. That you should find it in Ellis and it also appears under Birk's
shows the connections between all three companies (as they all later merged). Then I did a bit of reading up on
Towle's.  Turns out that they were situated in Mass., which for Eastcoasters like myself has a long history of 'cross border'
trade, employment and genealogy. Considering the six generation silversmith's in the Towle family I would have to guess
they were the original makers of the pattern and that Ellis, Birk's and Ryrie all carried their stock or had permission to duplicate.

http://www.replacements.com/webquote/TWSOLEN.htm

http://www.replacements.com/webquote/BIROLENG.htm

All four for comparison........

TOWLE


BIRKS


RYRIE (not noticeable in my pic, mine has a gold dipped bowl)


ELLIS



Darn, wish I could keep all this stuff in my head. I'll have to start writing this all down as I find it to cross reference
the dates.  It was brought out by Towle in 1892 and if I remember correctly, was discontinued by Birks in 1915 according
to Replacements, but no info for it under the Ryrie name. Luckily any of this info I find will go to good use as I believe
much of what I have here will likely fall under similar search areas.

 

[Chinese Antique Furniture]

Haven't heard of Birks since we used to cross the border into Windsor from Detroit.  It was a great store, and crossing the border was kind of a thrill because it was the only place in the US where you got to Canada by driving South. 

[talesofthesevenseas]

Interesting info Sapphire, I'll look forward to seeing/learning from more spoons from the collection! We're all gonna be experts in this stuff in no time, eh?!!!    Thanks also for your spoon topic giving me the inspiration to get the photos up I was putting together.