Barrel Orchestrion - Theodor Behrend Kiel. - Any help??

[jsrid]

Hi all,

This was the property of my recently deceased Grandfather. He was a large collector of antiques, from clocks to cars to even tanks. After many years of this hobby, he reached the point where he started his own "Conservatorium of Antiques", which he decided to call an "Antiquotorium".

With a collection the size of his, it was impossible that we knew the story behind all of his pieces; in fact I'm not 100% that he knew the story behind all of them. With his passing, my family is on a mission to try and gain as much information as possible about his items and their heritage, so we'll see how we go and there might be alot more pieces ending up for question on here.

This is my first post here, but I've read through it and I believe that this is the right forum area? Apologies if I got it wrong.

All that we know about this is what is written on it. Its solid oak, stands at about 10'6" and of course is rather heavy. We've been told that it is most likely from somewhere between 1840 and 1900 simply by the design of the barrel. That's all that we know.

Interestingly, this piece is in Bundaberg, Australia. That's a small town 4 hours north of Brisbane with a population of less than 70,000. How it got there, we do not know but we know that this item must be very rare in our country.

Absolutely any information or assistance on the piece would be great; ideas on the age, mfr, just absolutely anything.

Thanks all 

Oh, I almost forgot to add that it works perfectly and when locked can be coin operated. There is a spare music barrel stored in the bottom half of the cabinet.









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[cogar]

OH MY GAWD, ….. I have a birthday coming up, ya know. 

jsrid, a magnificant piece you have there.

About all I can tell you is to Google ..... Orchestrions

Or, you might read this first, to wit:

AMICA International - Automatic Musical Instrument Collectors' Association
http://www.amica.org/Live/Instruments/Orchestrions/Orchestrions_MAIN.htm

ps: It has a "Contact Us" button at the bottom, which you might want do.

[ironlord1963]

Wow  ,  This is way cool stuff, Don't know anything about it and really hope someone does.  Welcome to the forum and really can't wait to see what other surprises you have for us.

[KC]

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Speechless.....(even in the written part of it at first).  Magnificent piece!  What a prize!    We have had Automatas on here and a few orchestions....but this one is a piece pf art!!!!!

First of all....is there any other information, model # etc on the spare "music barrel" or inside the cabinet that you can see without taking it apart?

Yours looks  like those seen from Europe/Germany.  Has a drum, xylophone, tambourine?

Maybe contacting this fella could get you on the right track.  If you find out any information, please let the Antique-Shop Gang know about it.....we love to find out!
http://www.cotps.com/

Also, names of museums all over including your neck of the woods with contact numbers
http://www.mbsi.org/museums.php

Here is a German one similar insides to yours!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/german-barrel-piano,orchestron-coin-operated-fully-work_W0QQitemZ200450502876QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxq20100317?IMSfp=TL100317113002r12483

[talesofthesevenseas]

Fabulous! We have similar pieces on display and functioning at Musee Mechanique, the Mechanical Museum in San Francisco. They may be able to help:
http://www.museemechanique.org/

[cogar]

When I lived Upstate NY, near Utica, one of the places I always liked to go visit was the Utica Club Distillery to take a “tour” of the production area to see the making and bottling of their beers. I hated “Utica Club” beer because we use to call it the “headache beer”. But now their Matt’s Premium was good and that’s why I suffered through so many “tours” ….. because, ….. at the end of the “tour” they would give you two (2) “chits” that were good for 2 big mugs of Matt’s Premium Draft in their “Gay 20’s Room” and therein was the 1st Orchestrion I ever seen up close and personal …… and playing music ….. while the hostess, who was dressed Gay 20 style, collected the “chits” and served the mugs of beer.  Ahh, the memories.

[jsrid]

Thanks for the help so far everyone.

It looks like we may have to take a bit of a better look inside in order to figure out the manufacturer. I've contacted someone in the US who's a collector and the suggested was made that the label on the machine could be for where the piece was made for, not who made it.

We're also going to try and find out the songs on the barrrels, since thats apparently something of particular interest to collectors as well.

My next plan is to try and contact someone at one of those Australian museums, thanks for that KC.

Any other suggestions keep them coming, I'll be sure to post on here how I go

[cogar]

We're also going to try and find out the songs on the barrrels

jsrid, since you said it works perfectly, use an I-phone, I-pod or whatever and video it playing the songs and then post the video on the Internet on one of those public sites like "U Tube" or whatever it's called, maybe someone will recognize them.

Or contact one of those Collector's Associations and then E-mail the video to them. 

[KC]

There were quite a few manufacturers of the Orchestrion in Germany (predominantly Black Forrest area), Europe (London, France) and USA.  So would be curious if the music is typical of a country!  I do know that many of the large Orchestrion were converted to paper rolls (like a player piano) so that particular makers (like Welte & Sons - German) are rarer to find.

Is there anything written on the ends of the spare barrel?

[regularjoe2]

Wonderful old machine , jsrid .

Have not found much , save for a ships passenger manifest (1872) , listing a Theodor Behrend (@ 6 yrs. old) bound for New York city (prob. a resident of Kiel) .
Perhaps some sort of link there , but nothing solid yet .

Is there any indication of coin denomination(s) that this machine could accept ?

[KC]

One more thing....is this totally electronic?  Are there any indications that it had a hand crank?
Electronics were brought in after 1880.

[sapphire]

Is it possible this Theodor Behrend was a ship? Found records of one by this name dated 1866 and 1889, based out of Germany.
Would a barque have carried/used something this large and ornate? In both these reports it was carrying coal.....could it have
later been converted to carry passengers? It obviously travelled extensively.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.scheepvaartmuseum.nl/collectie/maritieme-kalender%3Fj%3D%26m%3D2%26d%3D2&ei=9OnhS_XnH8WblgfjnKWeAg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCYQ7gEwAg&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dtheodor%2Bbehrend%2Baustralia%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den

February 2, 1889 (Cape Verde, Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Africa)

"The German barque 'Theodor Behrend', loaded with 960 tons of coal and route of the River Tyne at the bunker site Porto Grande (Cape Verde), decays during a storm at Den Helder. With the help of the rowing lifeboat skipper under Dorus Rijkers and steam paddle tug 'Hercules', part of the crew of the sandbar Unrest be saved. " TRANSLATED FROM ORIGINAL DUTCH

The Theodor Behrend travelled to Canada, being involved in a collision on the St. Lawrence River in 1865 as reported in this trial
of January 19, 1866.  

http://www.archive.org/stream/casesselectedfr02courgoog#page/n131/mode/1up/search/theodor+behrend

[jsrid]

That's some fine detective work there guys 

It had been suggested that Kiel was the town of manufacture or the place where the piece was constructed for use. I'd found something similar Sapphire and Regularjoe2 about Theodor Behrend, both the ship and the person. It would seem to me that "Theodor" itself wouldn't be an overly rare name, but Behrend seems to be, so perhaps the person and the ship were connected somehow? A child named after it perhaps or a relative connected to the naming of the ship?

That aside, it would be fascinating to think that this was a piece connected to a large ship that later met its demise, proving it would be something entirely different I assume, though the dates are about right. Its probably fantasy, but it would be great.

The only problem that I have with this theory is connected with KC's question. This is a hand cranked orchestrion, purely mechanical, which means that it is dependent on a large pendulum, probably about 100kg. Typically pendulums and ships are a no go, though I guess stranger things have happened and this may only apply to ships travelling in open water.

Cogar, good suggestion. We're working on that, if only for the pleasure of people on forums such as this. The difficulty is that I myself live about 500km from where this piece is stored. It's apparent that we may benefit from taking a more invasive look at it and trying to figure out the songs on the barrells somehow. Its a fascinating machine to watch, even if the tunes themselves are over a century old.

[sapphire]

Now on a totally different track


Rubrik(en) - Auktionshaus Klaus Lukas

Klavier um 1920, Eiche dunkel, Fabrikat: Theodor Behrend, Kiel (9327). 911, 1.200.-.-, 1.200.-.-, Phonograph, Fabrikat: Pathe, Paris um 1900. ...
www.antik-auktion.de/auktionen/downloaditem.php3?area=2 - Similar

"German to English translation

Piano around 1920, Dark Oak, Manufacturer: Theodor Behrend, Kiel"


Need caffeine to go through this whole page.....anyone speak German?

[jsrid]

That sounds more like it Sapphire.

I have to correct what I said previously; this machine isn't powered through a pendulum. The mechanism is a heavy weight which is raised by using the winding handle, and is then slowly lowered and regulated through the governor that you can see beside the loaded barrel in one of the photos in the thread.


We've been giving thought to taking some video and some better photos and sending them in to one of those collector or antique shows on tv and seeing if they can give us any help as well.

I know someone who speaks German, Sapphire, I'll send them the link and see if they can give us a hand, thanks all