Author Topic: Hitching Post Top  (Read 12676 times)

hosman321

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Hitching Post Top
« on: June 09, 2010, 02:31:24 pm »
So, I finally got this today. I was all excited and opened it up. It looks really cool. It looks really old. But I think it's a repro. I came to that determination very quickly for one reason. Where there would be a screw, there is just an impression of a screw. Like someone made this one from a real one that had a screw in it. Does this absolutely mean it's a repro? Is it possible that way back when, someone made a mold from one with a screw in it? Does anybody know of the iron processes from long ago? When I search for authentic ones online, some have screws/holes and some don't.

This little thing seriously weighs about a million pounds, I think I strained my back carrying it inside. I am having a hard time believing someone would recreate an authentic one and have it be this heavy. If it was going to be a decoration, it would be very inconvenient. I don't even know where to put it because I'm afraid of it breaking my shelves etc. So...antique, vintage or brand spanking new? No markings at all. No traces of paint. You can slightly see the screw impression in the first pic, on the bottom.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2010, 02:50:43 pm by hosman321 »

hosman321

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Re: Hitching Post Top
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2010, 02:47:37 pm »
I put it on the scale and it weighs 25 pounds. It's only 10" tall!

fancypants

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Re: Hitching Post Top
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2010, 04:31:50 pm »
From what I think I see in your images , hosman321 , it appears that yours was made from (in) a metal mold , which is/was intended to simulate a sand-cast item .

I'm guessing that the original sand-cast horse head served the purpose of being the form for making the mold .

I'd guess a more modern manufacture date than the style of the horsehead depicts .

Pretty rough work done on the mold/flash lines also indicates this to me .

On the upside of my opinion , the horsehead from which it was cast was possibly an antique one .

I'm also thinking that your item may have been produced in an asian country ?

It sure looks tough enough to hitch a team to !
" Methinks me the 'mental' in sentimental .... "

hosman321

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Re: Hitching Post Top
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2010, 04:39:59 pm »
Super disappointing. :(
That's what I get though for buying on ebay with no guarantees. Oh well. I'll probably sell it if it is a repro. It's cool, but I have lots of "cool" stuff. It just doesn't have that history attached to it that I crave. Good thing I didn't spend a fortune. Here's the ad. And I can't really leave negative feedback because it wasn't listed as an antique. You live and learn, eh?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360264294536&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
Wait a sec, it was listed as an antique. Hmm...I guess I could write him politely and see what he says. But I want to be sure first that it's modern.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2010, 04:42:21 pm by hosman321 »

fancypants

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Re: Hitching Post Top
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2010, 05:03:43 pm »
It could also just be an old & crude-ishly cast item .

It takes a pretty heavy mold to cast an item as massive as this horsehead is .
Thinner molds will tend to warp , over time , & will show lots of 'leakage' of the casted metal @ the seams .

I'm thinking WW1 to WW2-ish age .
Early on , Old Chairman Mao made the peasants make pig-iron in their back yards , so as to provide base metal for export and domestic uses .

This one would be worth seeing in person , so as to be able to answer for sure .

I wouldn't give up looking around for another one just like it with some provenance (other than hear-say) .

Lets see what others say !
« Last Edit: June 09, 2010, 05:20:40 pm by fancypants »
" Methinks me the 'mental' in sentimental .... "

hosman321

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Re: Hitching Post Top
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2010, 05:18:30 pm »
http://www.figuralcastiron.org/
I'm sure those guys would know in a second. But I can't really spend $40 right now. It's worth the membership but my husband is in California right now and I promised I wouldn't spend a dime on antique stuff. :P

hosman321

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Re: Hitching Post Top
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2010, 03:53:07 am »
I think I found my exact horse head. The only problem is that they don't seem 100 percent sure that theirs is truly old either. The traces of paint look authentic on theirs, it's kinda hard to replicate really weathered paint. I wonder if I should write them...
http://www.trocadero.com/stores/Highgrover/items/995017/item995017.html
Clicking on the picture shows bigger pictures. Theirs appears to have the hole for a ring. I can't see a screw because that part is in the lamp base. Lots of old ones don't have rings though. I wonder if that is another indicator that mine was cast from an original mold and they just filled in the hole with iron. I'd be thrilled if mine was even from the 20's, when hitching posts were fading out of history. I wouldn't be too disappointed if it's not from the 1800's.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 05:55:58 am by hosman321 »

hosman321

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Re: Hitching Post Top
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2010, 08:26:32 am »
I emailed the figural cast iron site and he emailed me back super fast. Said to send him pics so he can try to authenticate it. Crossin' my fingers he can tell if it's a repro or not. I'll be super disappointed if this thing was made in China like...last year. Very nice of him to offer to help me, most clubs I ask for help say that I'll have to join in order to get advice.

hosman321

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Re: Hitching Post Top
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2010, 08:54:17 am »
Well he said it looks real to him and not a reproduction. Now I feel good about getting it so cheap.  ;)
But he said I'd have to take it to an expert in hitching posts to be sure. Yeah, sure, where the heck do I find one of those?  ???

waywardangler

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Re: Hitching Post Top
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2010, 09:27:27 am »
Any Amish in your area?  I am not an expert on hitching posts but I have seen a few.  I also have seen many cast iron items.  The newness of the rust is a red flag as is the new bright grind marks on the bottom.  I also do not like the offset mold line on the head.  Close your eyes and run your hands over this post.  Does it feel like a rough sand casting or is the surface smooth.  Sometimes our eyes want to tell us one thing when our other senses should be used.  I am leaning towards a newer casting rather than an antique one but you are the one that can examine this in person and go with your gut feeling.  JMO.   :)

hosman321

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Re: Hitching Post Top
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2010, 09:46:59 am »
I just typed out the longest reply and then the page just closed. GRRR...
Went something like this...
No Amish in my area, I'm afraid. :P
I have no idea what to think of it, that's why I wrote that club. I don't have much experience with iron. The casting is really sandy, I told him it was sandy. The scrape or tool? marks are smooth, of course. They are all over it. He said it didn't matter about the screw impression and it didn't matter that there wasn't a ring hole. I don't know. I wonder who I could take it to around here that would actually know the difference and wouldn't just be guessing. I really hate having items and not being able to say for sure if it's new or old. I collect things because of their history, not because they look like something with history.
Oh, and the rust does look much more red in the pics than in person. I just have a really bright flash I guess. It's more brownish-red.
Here's a few more pics of the surface, it case it makes any difference.

waywardangler

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Re: Hitching Post Top
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2010, 10:01:58 am »
I don't know...this is a hitching post so where the ropes or leather reins were looped/tied to it, there should be smoothness from repeated hitching.  Is there any evidence of hitching?  If there is none, then I think this is new.

I like the color of the nose but not the grind marks on the seam.  The forehead looks like newer rust.  As for an expert, I would look for someone that deals/collects cast iron cookware, old water pumps, door stops, etc.  They should be able to tell old iron from new and let you know what to look for. 

talesofthesevenseas

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Re: Hitching Post Top
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2010, 10:30:04 am »
That's great that they feel it is original! Wayward has a point. If you're tying up your horse, it's usually at a horizontal rail, rather than an upright pole, unless that pole has a ring in it. It could be that a ring was mounted further down on the pole. Your seller said that it was from an old pole at an old barn and that certainly speaks well of it. I would contact them again, and just let them know you want to learn the history of the piece- What was the pole like, where was it located in proximity to the barn or house and was there a second ring.

When you tie off a horse you do it with a slip knot. This is because horses occasionally get spooked and do what's called "pulling back" where they heave their full weight backwards. If you tie a regular knot, you can't free the panicked horse because the knot will tighten. With a slip knot the horses end will hold fast, but you have an end to pull that enables you to free the horse if you  need to.

If you tied off to an upright metal post pole, it woud be slippery and the knot would slip to the bottom of the pole. This could easily allow the horse to become entangled in the lead line. That's why hitching rails are horizontal and high up, and hitching posts usually have a ring of some sort, to keep the knot from slipping down. There are exceptions though. In my little ol' logging town, we have a few old hitching rings embedded in the concrete sidewalks. These are low, only giving about 6" or 8" between where the horse is standing at the curb and where the ring is mounted. I suspect these were added during the transition period from horses to cars and that prior to that a more horse-friendly horizontal rail would have been in place. Tying off to a slippery metal upright pole is also a bit more difficult when you tie the slip knot, and it also has a much greater likelihood of loosening up as the horse moves around and the knot is slipping around.
Antiqueaholic in recovery

waywardangler

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Re: Hitching Post Top
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2010, 11:12:53 am »
Also good hitching post points, Tales.  I just looked at a bunch of cast iron horse head images and hitching post pages and did not see a head that looks like this, hosman.  So that is a good thing.  I would imagine repros would be all over the place.  Another thought I had was this head may not have been for a hitching post (thus no ring) but may be a fancy fence post topper for a wrought iron fence or gate pillar?

hosman321

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Re: Hitching Post Top
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2010, 12:38:35 am »
Good points tales, now I'm super confused about what to think of this horse. :)
I still remember how to tie slip knots from when I used to ride, so I definitely know what you mean about it sliding. I think the ones without rings were just used to quickly wrap your reins around, maybe for short pit stops. And the ones with rings may have been used at places where people had to stay a bit longer. At the figural cast iron site, you can also see that some of them don't have rings or holes for rings. Like the black horse head and the eagle. Maybe mine really did have the ring on the actual pole and not on the head.
http://www.figuralcastiron.org/hitchingposts.html
I think I'll write the seller and ask if he knows more. I also noticed he sold another one exactly like mine he supposedly got at the same ranch. I wish I would have known, I would have bought both. I wish I could get ahold of that Phil and Bunny Savino couple on the iron site but I don't know how to contact them. They seem like the type of people that would know a repro from an antique.


Here's one in use like wayward suggested, as a gate topper. Maybe the one that was turned into a lamp on that one site had a ring hole because they made it for a hitching post. But maybe the same company also made it without ring holes for use as other decorations.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/melissasteep/4052410177/
It'd be an awfully heavy thing on a gate though. Then again, we're not used to that these days. Everything is plastic, resin or aluminum. Nothing is solid anymore.

« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 01:31:25 am by hosman321 »