18th Century Desk?

[ArchitectCS]

Hello everyone,

I'm totally new to the forum and I need some advice.  I saw this desk at a local antique store and am seriously considering buying it.  The owner believes it to be late 18th century to early 19th century American.  Unfortunately, I am in no position to tell for sure.  The desk is 42" long, 22" deep, the writing surface is at 29" and the full height is 3'.  It appears to be mahogany and there is some sort of inlaid strip that outlines all of the elements.  This strip is much lighter in color and is missing in many places throughout the piece.  It has what appears to be brass handles on the drawers and decorative metal band around the feet.  The desk is finished on all four sides, though the back does not have any of the inlay.  I looked for any sort of makers mark or marking of any kind, but couldn't find much.  The three small drawers have the numbers 10, 11, and 12 written on the back of them in pencil, and one of the drawers has the number 70 stenciled on the bottom of it.  The only major flaw I found in the surface of the piece is a hair that seems to have been varnished or stained into the top.  I'm not sure how important any of this information is, but then again I'm a newbie. 

I would really appreciate it if someone could tell me approximately how old the desk is and how much it is approximately worth.  The sooner you can tell me this the better.  Thanks in advance for all your help!









Here is the flaw in the top I mentioned.

[regularjoe2]

Welcome to the forum , ArchitectCS .

Clearly appears to be a refinished item .

Is there any chance you could get a pic of the dovetail joints (on the front of the lower drawers) ?

Also , would you mind mentioning how much the shop owner is asking for this one ?
The missing pcs. of the inlay strip should count as a little more negotiating power for the buyer !

When you go back to the shop , perhaps you could carry a small magnet with you , in order to tell if the hardware (hinges,drawer pulls & feet) is brass-plated steel , or solid brass (solid brass would be better) .

[ArchitectCS]

Thanks for the fast response!  Unfortunately I don't have pictures of the dovetails of any of the drawers and I'm not sure that I'd be able to go back and get them.  Out the door I'd be paying a bit under $600.

[regularjoe2]

Hmmm ...
Unless this is a hand-made item & solid mahogany , I'd say that this item is over-priced IMO ;
considering the following -
a very 'so-so' job on the uneven refinishing job (& it appears to be 'orange-peeled')
much missing inlay (never a good thing)
dealer being uncertain of its' age (18th,19th,20th cent?)

It could actually be early 20th century manufacture .

It is an elegant-appearing item , & I can really understand why you like it ....but it could be fully machine made .

You could check the dovetails , when you return to see it again & see if they're machine made or hand-cut .

[talesofthesevenseas]

I would also take a look at the inlay on the front, it looks like a piece has fallen out. You might be able to peek at that and look for signs of hand tools having been used. I would also take a good look at the underside. Look for evidence of hand planing ...or modern rotary saws.  It's lovely, I'll hope that it turns out to be as old as the seller believes!

[gingertomantiques]

Its a very nice piece but looks a 100 + years later, 1920 ish. Its got an art deco appearance & It looks like its over restored  & not been done that well.
$600 is the asking price, We dealers will always negotiate $400 - $450 should secure a deal. Compare that to a new modern one & its a good deal

[Chinese Antique Furniture]

Its a very nice piece but looks a 100 + years later, 1920 ish. Its got an art deco appearance & It looks like its over restored  & not been done that well.
$600 is the asking price, We dealers will always negotiate $400 - $450 should secure a deal. Compare that to a new modern one & its a good deal

Lot of wisdom right here!!

[D&b antiques]

Some would call it a. Bureau A Gradin. ( it's english Writeing desk) I Would'nt but it's worth $450.00 Dollars.

[ArchitectCS]

Thank you all for your advice!  I really appreciate it.  Few random comments: (1) The original asking price was $675 but he knocked 20% off of it, so it ends up being about $575 including tax.  I doubt he'll go any lower.  (2) I believe the piece actually is solid mahogany.  I don't see anything to indicate it is any kind of veneer.  As to whether it is machine made or hand made, I'm not really sure what I'm looking for there.  (3) Regularjoe2-what does 'orange peeled' mean? (4) Gingertomantiques-what makes you think it looks art deco?  I'm somewhat familiar with the style, but would disagree based on my limited experience.

Again, thanks so much everyone.

[talesofthesevenseas]

If the piece was made with power tools like a circular saw blade, you'll see circular or arched marks on it, which would make it post 1860.

Here's a good article that explains how to look at the manufacturing techniques used on a piece of furniture to determine if it was handmade or made with power tools. It also covers looking for handmade dovetails as mentioned above and looking for non-uniform features.

http://tlc.howstuffworks.com/home/how-to-identify-antique-wooden-furniture-for-refinishing.htm

I'll post a copy of this article over in the Special Threads section for future reference.

[regularjoe2]

To your question about my 'orange-peeled' comment -

If you look at an orange , you'll see quite a few 'pock-marks' in the peel , this phrase 'orange-peeled' has been coined to describe painted , varnished & many other types of finish methods that have an appearance very similar to the orange-peel texture .

This finishing flaw is unaccecptable to professional finishers , and indicates a plethora of possible errors during finishing , including , but not limited to things like : improper surface prep , air-mixture/pressure calibration (for air-assisted aplication finishes) , solvent / finish mixtures , etc.

It's a pain in the butt to try to fix , without stripping down the surface again .

[gingertomantiques]

Art Deco style - with the modern interests in speed and streamlining. Originally called “Modernism,” this new, avant-garde sensibility was interpreted in many different ways

[KC]

I can only encourage you to....buy it if you like it - but try and get the best price possible.  So many buy items thinking they are getting an item of great worth for a deal (which we all like).  However, unless you are a dealer....it is your to look at and ENJOY!  So, only buy what you really like and enjoy it!!!!!

[talesofthesevenseas]

Something else is bothering me here about the 18th century date this seller is putting on this piece. Take a look at these hinges. I'm not an expert, but I believe these hinges are mass-manufactured and would have to be at least 19th century or later. If they were 18th century they would have been hand forged by a blacksmith. Although the originals could have been replaced, you should be able to see some sign of the original hinges, like old filled holes or cut-outs where they were set. Are those threaded, slotted screws holding them in place? You can look at the head of the screw and see if the slots are all identical. Another sure sign of mass-produced hardware. If the hardware was homemade and original, you would see all kinds of inconsistency, like the slots being off-center.


This photo is from the back of my federal mirror, which dates to 1810. You can see examples of hand-forged iron hardware and homemade screws- and right next to them are later, mass-manufactured replacements. It is easy to see which is which.

[regularjoe2]

Saw that too , Talesof ...

If you also notice the 'replacement pads' in the same part of the unit ...
in the area between the hinges , you'll see where the original pads were placed (sort of a bad compromise , since these would tend to unduely stress the hinges & cause them to loosen , strip or bend) .