Value of 1948 Arrow Development Co Cast Iron Carousel Horse

[talesofthesevenseas]

Speaking of carousel horse repros, I'm pretty sure this is one. It's been on Craigslist for weeks and the seller claims it is a "very old" restored horse from San Francisco. The seller claims that they got it in pieces and restored it. If that's true, they should be shot for painting it Peptobismol pink! But look at how the mane is in the rider's position in the saddle... there's no place to sit! And not a single chip missing off that highly impractical tail? I'm thinkin' Mexico repro.



Original listing
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/for/1842569564.html

[sapphire]

OMG! Peptobismol !    I had thought My Little Pony on steroids, but I have to agree with you there.



I doubt it was ever meant to ride. If anything, likely for display....but haven't come across anything close to
that mane and tail in any of the ones I seen this far. 

[sapphire]

This one reminded me a lot of yours (had to download and expand to see more detail), but it's listed twice on the same site......once as being a Herschell and further down without identification (possible picture mix up?). But both listings with
the same price of $895.

http://www.gameroomantiques.com/Carnival.htm

[sapphire]

Tales, not related to your horse but came across this site. What an amazing story - which could have become a repetition of the fate of many carousels. The 'Turn of the Century' section is particularly sad when you consider the loss. It would be interesting to follow the progress and see the full restoration.

I've linked to the Background page, there are further links at the bottom where you can view the 'Stable' awaiting their transformation.

http://www.3rdwave.com/carousel/background.shtml

[talesofthesevenseas]

Boy does that tug on my heart strings Sapphire! I can't imagine loading them into a furnace!!! Oh!!!!

I had a big breakthrough tonight!!

I tracked down Judith Starbird Guardino, the lady quoted in the Mercury News article. She referred me to her ex-husband Tony Starbird. Tony was the man who purchased the carousel for Happy Hollow park! He was with the San Jose Jaycees organization at the time and he did quite a lot of the original purchasing for the park.

I had a great conversation with him and he told me that he had had a very hard time finding a carousel for the park, let alone one that they could afford. But after a great deal of searching, they found the Arrow Development Co. carousel - get this- Under the horse race track at Tanforan Race Track! This was an early horse racing facility, and the entire carousel was being stored in pieces in below-ground storage rooms there. He said he did not know how it got there, but thought that it had come from some small children's park in San Francisco. Tanforan Racetrack was just a little outside of SF in San Bruno, CA.

Mr. Starbird said that finding out how the carousel got under the racetrack and where it came from before that was going to be tough. But he said to keep at it and not to give up and I assured him that I would!  So I think we have been given a mission LOL!

[regularjoe2]

Cool historical research so far , talesof .

Have you taken out your magnet & checked it yet ?

[talesofthesevenseas]

Ahhh-HA!! The magnet doesn't stick! It must be cast aluminum or some other alloy!

Thanks RJ2, I forgot to do a magnet test!

[regularjoe2]

Good to know , talesof.

I was waiting to find that tid-bit out !

[wendy177]

Tales not sure if this will help but it sounds as if you need to search the carnival circuit Here in the northeast we have a company that will set up rides & games for fairs & such, it is a family run business that has been around  since 1947, They may have old records of purchases & sales  of older equipment & rides. I would check your area also to see if any such companies have been family owned for years also. I have dealt with many such companies in my area and they are mostly family owned for generations it seems to be in their blood. this company is called Gillette shows   http://www.gilletteshows.biz/index.htm   ( still researching  your family spoon from Geer Terry watchmaker, silversmith & jeweler can not get to the archives often but will keep at it when time allows

[sapphire]

Before I lose track of this site I hit I'm going to post it here. Tales, don't know if this would be useful or even still in existence but gonna stick it here just in case. Came across it searching hits for their carousels. The main article down the center talks about one at that park and the refurbishment. Thought that somewhere on here, maybe through the menu, there might be some kind of link to company histories.

http://www.gettheloop.com/loopapril3/loop053.html

Don't mind me, just rambling and waiting for the caffeine to kick in. Figure if I wait till I'm alert I won't remember where I found this.

Edited to ad another 'maybe'    Leaving for work shortly and know I'll not find the stuff I started reading, so here's another......lots of links to many of the attractions and some great old pics too.

http://coolrain44.wordpress.com/2009/05/31/remembering-lost-and-forgotten-roadside-tourist-attractions-and-amusement-parks-on-the-west-coast/

[Dean Perdue]

Great thread and congrats on a excellent piece TOT7S.

Wish I had some useful info but just have a photo of my son riding a horse at Greenfield Village that kind of resembles yours.

Something about being on one with the old time carnival music going that seems to transport you back in time.

Call me immature but riding these bad boys is a opportunity that I try not to pass by (to my son's embarasment he'll even have to stop me from jumping on the penny one at our local Meijer's).

Thanks for posting this great history.

[talesofthesevenseas]

Thanks for all the info above! I think my next course of action will be to get the serial number from the carousel plaque through my contact at Happy Hollow, then to try contacting the surviving founder of Arrow Development or his son, who ran the company after him. They may have some old records from the 40's of the original sale of the carousel.

Dean I know exactly what you mean about the facination with carousels. I really got hooked when I was in 5th grade and read a book called "Gigi: The Story of a Merry-Go-Round-Horse". It was a story told from the perspective of a French carousel horse that chronicals his relationships with humans who both care for him as well as seek to profit from him and the journey he takes as his carousel is sold off and handed through different owners over the years. Eventually this leads him back to a woman who befriended Gigi when she was a child. I must have read that book at least ten times and I have never outgrown my fascination with carousels. 

[talesofthesevenseas]

Well, I got an answer from the carousel guy at All Experts.

"I don't think it's necessary to put a separate insurance rider on this piece. Aluminum horses are not all that valuable and last forever. I'd place a realistic retail value of $600-$800 on your horse. I'm sure you'll see some offered with higher price tags but I'd be willing to bet that you never see them sell."

I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand I know I'm terribly biased because of my emotional attachment to the horse. So I'm aware that that could cloud my judgement. On the other had, I KNOW that identical horses in lesser condition and with less going for them than mine sold for as high as $2000 just a year or so ago, and that's not just speculation on my part. I got that info from the folks who ran the auction at Happy Hollow.

I've run into this with people who are collectors of the wooden horses. They don't seem to feel that the later metal ones have any appreciable value, and I just can't say for sure if they take into account the nostalgia buying market or not. I guess it's like asking Jay Leno what a VW bug with original factory paint is worth, LOL!

[talesofthesevenseas]

I just got my paws on an out-of-print copy of "Roller Coasters, Flumes and Flying Saucers - The Story of Ed Morgan and Karl Bacon Ride Inventors of the Modern Amusement Parks". There is some interesting info in it about the cast aluminum horses and the carousels they were on.

First off, Morgan and Bacon (aka Arrow Development Co) were the first to create an all-steel carousel. It was a little one, the 20' diameter type with small horses and it was one that I rode as a kid. It was up in Alum Rock Park in San Jose CA.

The horses were all made of cast aluminum, except for during the Korean War and for a short time in the early 1950's they made the horses from magnesium. But they didn't hold up well and would tend to crack when they cooled.

One of the partners commented that these early metal carousels were designed to be portable, because they were often purchased for traveling carnivals and would only be in place for three days or so before being dismantled and transported. He said that from a design standpoint they were fabulous, because they would break down and go together quickly and easily. But that from an asthetic standpoint, he was not proud of how the carousels looked. But I have to say we kids loved 'em anyway! (and still do!)

Here'a a couple of photos from the book, the first showing the "plug and mold" for my model of horse:



The second showing one of the carousels which looks just like the one my horse came from at Happy Hollow. Same basic design but the photo is clearer than the one posted above from the 60's. Looks like the horses with their heads raised like mine are on either the center or interior row. The horses with the heads tucked are all on the outside row.

[talesofthesevenseas]

Here's an update, the fiberglass sea animals that replaced my horse are now up on sale on Craigslist, for $1500 to $2000 each.
C-list ad:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/atq/1918533062.html
Photostream:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28421666@N06/
I called the guy who had the ad and the carousel has been dismantled and parts of it destroyed. It is currently up for sale and they are hoping to find someone interested in taking the whole thing. He was quite nice and was interested in the info I have on it. I was able to get a serial number from the carousel, but it comes from a label that dates to much later than the carousel. I'm hoping it is not a city assigned number, but one from the manufacturer that was transferred onto the label. More if I get more info.