Little Old Chair

[hosman321]

Recently won this. Wondering if you guys think it is as old as they state it is. I can't believe I spent $30 on it but I only did because it does look super old. Any thoughts? Opinions? They still haven't sent the dang thing out, but said they will tomorrow.  
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270628229965&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

[hosman321]

Bumping.

[KC]

Have you received it yet?

[hosman321]

As far as I know, they still have not shipped it. Getting really irritated. I have a feeling they are having "seller's remorse" and are ticked that it sold for $9.99.

[hosman321]

Well, I got this today. They sent it fedex and it got here super fast. But I have about a million questions about it. I'm really curious about it's age. I don't know if it's 1600's or 1800's. Here's my best description:

1. The finish is really strange. It's somewhat "greasy." And frankly, it smells like animal fat or a dead animal. It's not super stinky nor emitting some horrible smell. Just a faint smell. I feel like I have to wash my hands after touching it, it leaves a slightly greasy feel on my hands. It even has the appearance of fat in person. Did they use any animal materials in finishes a long time ago?
2. Under the seat, within the finish, there appears to be grass and seeds. Did they use any mixture of grass and seeds in finishes a long time ago?
3. It is built very very strong, I believe it was a footstool, like this one. http://www.sellingantiques.co.uk/photos/dealer_helios_full_1265909181258-9502210674.jpg
I believe that one was described as 1600's.
The wear pattern on the seat is kind of in the shape of a foot, rather than a tooshie.
4. Underneath, in the joints there is some sort of red clay-like material. Very hard.
5. The big huge "chips" in the wood slats (underneath) are underneath the finish, they don't appear to be later damage.
6. In the later "L" bracket repairs, the screws slightly poke through the other side. The ends of them are like nails (No threads).
Thanks in advance for any ideas, I'm curious about this little thing!

Oh, and one last thing. When I first looked at it, I didn't think it could be terribly old because there wasn't any shrinkage in the joints that would cause them to "pop out." Is it possible that this thick, greasy fatty-type finish prevented the wood from drying out like unfinished wood would?

[hosman321]

Got some info from here, but it's not very in-depth. Trying to find a better site...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varnish

[dontbe]

It appears they waxed the daylights out of it... could it be some type of wax?

[hosman321]

I suppose it could be wax but it doesn't really have the feel of wax. It's more of a thin, flaking, peeling....somethin g.
Then again, I wouldn't know what old wax felt like.

[waywardangler]

Hosman, I never saw the original posting on this and just saw the pics tonight.  My only response is, What did you see in this chair that made you want to buy it?  I am not much when it comes to furniture identification but there is so much wrong with this chair.  When I first looked at it , I thought it looked like a garden chair my wife pays $1 for and sits in the garden with a potted flower on it but now I see it is a doll size chair.  Visit http://www.worthpoint.com/blog-entry/clues-antique-chairs and read about through tenons and some other points.  If you have watched the Keno brothers, they look for oxidation on the undersides of the wood, original blocking, wear points etc.  Your chair seems to have a number of red flags.  Sometimes our brain is telling us one thing (that which we want to believe) while our gut is telling us something else (that is what it really is).  I think you already know what this chair is and what it isn't but I would make a little "T" chart and objectively write down the good points and the bad points in the two columns.  After that I think you will have your answer. 

If those through tenons are really old, they should also be pinned and not just glued with hide glue.  Are they pinned?  Wax buildup on the surface could account for the greasy feel.  Take that off with some minerals spirits to see.  Seeds and grass are not part of a furniture finish but may become part after sitting a wet finish in a meadow.  Red-clay like material could be hardened wood filler or putty.  Huge chunks out of wood sounds like scrap wood was used.  Pointed ends of screw not threaded - I have screws such as those in my screw box.  Bascically self-threading screws where the point allows the screw to be power driven through the wood without a pilot hole.  The wear pattern on the seat should be from a butt and not a foot.  That flaky finish sounds like old varnish/shellac that has lifted due to moisture under the finish.  It gets kind of an opaque look rather than a see-through look.  Just my thoughts.

[hosman321]

I was mostly interested in it for my primitive-themed display case, wayward. I'm always looking for inexpensive items to put in there to act as shelving. If I'm unsure of the age of an item, I won't pay more than $20-$40. That way, if it's modern, at least I didn't waste a fortune and I still got something that looks old. 
I have a different feeling with this little chair, it's much different than the other little chairs I see in person. Now that I look at the bottoms of the legs (that are exposed and worn down) they do look very dried out and a bit shrunken. I do realize that wood dries out and can shrink within just a few years. I don't know, it just seems to be at least 100 years old. I have a feeling I may have to take this thing to the antique show in November for the $5 appraisal and identification. I just don't want to wait that long.
Oh, and I did notice a few tiny little nails. They have really deformed heads, look hand made. I'll try to get pics. Although they don't help with age much either. Thanks for the input!

[waywardangler]

Primitive is good.  I hope your appraisal fairs actually have some experts for your $5 to be worth something.  In my area, these are done by dealers and while some may know a lot, others just think they know a lot.  I get (free) advice from collector friends that specialize in an area that I know they are experts in (a wealth of knowledge from years of collecting).

In order to evaluate your chair, try and look past the screws, nails, non-original brackets, repairs, etc. and look to see how the chair was originally put together.  This may be a 'homemade' chair that a father made for his daughter and lacked finishing/construction skills for expert work.

[talesofthesevenseas]

Well, my non-professional two cents worth is if it looks good with your primatives, it deserves it's own little corner in your world. Maybe with an antique doll sitting in it! It does look like it has seen many days in the children's nursery, even if it didn't have the best of care in the past.

Could the peeling stuff be old clear varnish? It almost looks like boat varnish in the pix. If it is, it could be removed pretty easily with a heat gun and a plastic scraper.

[hosman321]

Sorry wayward, forgot to answer your "pinned" question. I'm not totally sure what that means but I took these pics. There are tiny metal pins (no heads on them, square shaped) near all the joints. Are these what you mean or somethin' else?

And thanks for the input, tales! Dolls scare the heck out of me! Well, just old ones.

[hosman321]

Nevermind, I don't think that's what you meant. I looked it up.

[hosman321]

If it makes any difference, this is the method of construction. With the wedges.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mortise.png

I should have also read the varnish link better. The greasy, oily varnish was probably made this way:
"There are many different types of drying oil, including linseed oil, tung oil, and walnut oil. These contain high levels of polyunsaturated fatty acids."