Pricing Question 1800's Presentation Piece

[wdtanner]

Hi all.  I'm searching the internet looking for clues on how much I should ask for a presentation piece I was given.  I have it listed on craig's list already because frankly, I'm in need of the cash being a 36 year old father of three who's just returned to college full time.

Anyway - I'm finding that there are really no people who can appraise this piece here in my town, and I'm not finding anything exactly like this through my (hours of) google searching.  I've had one person give me a ballpark retail price after looking at pictures, but I'd like a few more folks to lay eyes on it and let me know what they think.

I've posted a link to the craigslist ad below.  The ad provides detailed descriptions and pictures.  If anyone cares to give their input, I'd be most grateful.  And if anyone is interested in making an offer, I'd be even more grateful.   Any questions, feel free to post them here or private message or via craigslist.


http://westky.craigslist.org/atq/2014695096.html

Thanks for your time!
Dan Tanner

[waywardangler]

Nice looking pitcher.  The pics are not clear enough or BIG enough to decipher the engraving or the marks.  Are you sure the name is Hatzman as it looks like Matzman or something to me?  If the engraving has any historical significance, it would add to the value.  I would research this before selling it.  You may or may not be losing $$$.  Some forum members are very knowledgeable with silver objects and may be able to help out as soon as they see your post.

[wdtanner]

Here are the original images.  I did a bit of research on the names but didn't find much. 

[waywardangler]

I am thinking this may have been a christening/baptismal pitcher from Louisville, Kentucky for the lucky parents Mr. & Mrs. Jacob Hatzmann but I am not real familiar with religious formalities of the time period.  Just a guess.  What size is the pitcher and are you in Kentucky?

I see you are in western Kentucky by the craigslist ad. 

[wdtanner]

I did see the name Jacob Hatzmann in my research - from a census website, I think.  But I've never done any research like this, so I didn't know how to put two & two together like you just did. 

Yes, I'm in Western KY - Paducah to be exact.  If my story is right, my mother got this pitcher at a yardsale or antique store here in town quite a few years ago.

The size of the pitcher is 12" tall, from base to top of the lid and approximately 22" in diameter at its widest point.  And it's HEAVY for its size - from the porcelain within, no doubt.

[wendy177]

Dan found this one same year but june 13  #194 http://cgi.ebay.com/rogers-smith-co-porcelain-lined-silver-pitcher-pot-/180542609582?pt=antique_silver

[wdtanner]

Oh wow - neat.  That one's super clean looking too.  I don't DARE to clean this thing, simply because I'm not 100% sure what it's made of or how to clean whatever it is.  So mine definitely needs a little love - but I'm not qualified to give it.

[wdtanner]

Dan found this one same year but june 13  #194 http://cgi.ebay.com/rogers-smith-co-porcelain-lined-silver-pitcher-pot-/180542609582?pt=antique_silver

By the way - was this your ebay posting or someone else's?  I thought I might contact that person to see if they might want to add this mine to their collection.

[Oceans64]

Hmmm...  If I had to guess, assuming that it came from KY, it could be a wedding gift to John and Lousie Hatzmann.  In the 1900 KY Census they are shown as being married for 20 years... or 1880.  I have a copy of the record if you would like it - just private message me your email and am happy to send...  That said, it's only a guess.  It's an extremely nice gift for the time so you understanding who John was and/or Louise's family could add value.  There may be an inventory of their wills that is attainable (or even on-line) that could help establish ownership.  I'm pretty unfamiliar with 20th century inventories so I'm not sure if it would be out there or not....

I don't have time to research now but will try more later.  In the meantime..  Here's some info:

John Hatzmann
Home in 1900: Louisville Ward 4, Jefferson, Kentucky
Age: 51
Birth Date: Apr 1850
Birthplace: Kentucky
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relationship to Head of House: Head
Father's Birthplace: Germany
Mother's Birthplace: Germany
Spouse's name: Louise Hatzmann
Marriage Year: 1880
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 20

[wendy177]

Nope not my listing

[waywardangler]

Makes sense, Oceans, to be a wedding gift.  I thought if it was small it would be something else but the size precludes that.  Was the saying "Compliments to" a common wedding saying for the period?  If it was, I think you have nailed it.

Uhh, the IGI index is showing an 1882 marriage date for John & Louise Hatzmann, so I do not think that is the right Hatzmann/event or their records are off.

[Oceans64]

IGI records are notoriously (and I hate to say this) wrong....  The info I posted came from a census record which is "from the horses mouth" so to speak and far more reliable.  Latter Day Saints (AKA Mormons) have contributed so much to helping those who find the hobby of Genealogy fun so I hate to ever speak poorly of the work but you also have to under stand the source. Many of the IGI records come from undocumented family histories that have been sealed by the church which comes from family histories.  My own family history sealed by the church is incorrect and I believe that information was taken off a web site 10 years ago...  

That said, I think it would take a search of the KY archives to find a marriage record.  I can't find one in the databases I have searched thus far.  I emailed a KY Hatzman researcher to see if he has this couple in his family... It looks as tho they did drop one of the "n"'s in latter years...

Also as far as "compliments to..."  I haven't a clue and have never been so lucky as to come across anything so personal in my own history... I keep going back to this being a REALLY nice gift and one that would be an extravegance... 

[ironlord1963]

   I could give you lots of info on Rogers, Smith Co,  but basically they were located in New Haven between the years 1862 - 1877, they moved around a bit and was all part of the great gobbling up of silver Co.  Based on the marks it would fall into that date frame.   The really unique ones can warrant a pretty good price, The range you have selected.  However keep in mind you mentioned some damage.  Most collectors are really picky about the condition of a item.  I have sold a few pots and the ones with only a small amount of damage, I was hard press to get even $20.00 for.  Lots and Lots of silverplate items and compitation is extreamly high, seems everybody nowdays has inherited their Grandparents set.  You item is for sure a fancy and nice pot, but damage will chop the price alot.  As mentioned if that monogram on the pot has some historical story then it will Add value, without any monogram or marking as such really only hurts the value even more.  I do wish you luck on the sale of your item, but I think you are looking at maybe $75.00 max.  IMO    Thanks for posting 

[waywardangler]

Interesting information Oceans.  It makes genealogical research more difficult.

This pitcher makes one wonder how much it cost when new and the status of the giver and receiver.  I would assume, in its' day, the price of this pitcher equaled a good day's, week's, or month's wages?  To purchase it one would have to had the means and also must have thought very highly of Mr. & Mrs. Hatzmann.  It is too bad the meaning of the gift has been lost and this once prized object was sold at a yard sale or antique store (an auction purchase perhaps?).

[wdtanner]

This is becoming very fascinating.  Like I said, this is my first step into the realm of antiques, collecting and genealogy research.  I'm amazed at what you folks are coming up with in such a small amount of time.