Antique Paintings of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson

[marcylove]

These paintings were part the estate.  They are oil paintings on canvas,  and I need help identifying when exactly they were painted.  They need to be cleaned, but have been in these original frames for a while.  They are both signed by the same name that I can only guess as 'Allen (B. E. L?) Morris?)  Which does not register on the internet at all. 

The Robert E. Lee painting is a painting of an earlier version of him, so I'm wondering if was painted around the beginning of the war, 1860 or so).

I'm looking for any kind of help in identifying the artist, the time period these were painted, and about what they may be worth. I have several e-mails out to galleries, but appraisals are very expensive. 

Any info would be greatly appreciated!  Thanks!   

[marcylove]

here are pics of the back and signature. 

[waywardangler]

Very nice portraits that I think need to be looked at in person and out of the frames by an expert.  It is odd for an artist to sign the back of the paintings.  It is possible the name "Allen * Morris" is for whom the portraits were painted and is not the painter's name.

[wendy177]

Agree with wayward they need a hands on inspection by an expert they seem to be very well done by an expert hand, also agree most artists sign the piece itself & not the backs. Try sending photos to a very large auction house even if you do not wish to sell  if they show intrest they will give you an auction estimate.

[Oceans64]

Agree with everyone else...  They are stunning to my untrained eye and a professional is your best bet.

The one of Jackson is a common portrait by that I mean it has been painted by several professional and unprofessional artists throughout the years. Those portraits are painted (again...  untrained eye) from pics from a sitting he did 2 weeks before he died. You can find several examples here: http://www.moc.org/site/PageServer?pagename=gallery_jackson_photos_chancellorsville  None of them match exactly tho...

Can anyone date the frame?  I notice it is either dovetailed or tongue & groove in 4 places...

Also...  On the first pic of the back of the frame am I seeing another signiture? by the Welches Box...  Looks like it starts with a "T" and there is an "M"...

[marcylove]

Thanks everyone!  We will (eventually) take them to a professional.  It never occured to me that the signature would be the person who commissioned them.

Thanks Oceans! I agree that most paintings were done from photographs, unfortunately I can't find a similar sitting of Robert E. Lee, but I believe that it is him due to the mole in between his eyebrows.

I will keep you all informed!

 

[marcylove]

here's a close up of that other sig...

[mariok54]

There seems to be a whole history on the back there, even Eli Smith  - 21st Jan '02? plus something else that I can't make out. It all looks very contemporary and so I would feel confident that it is a 19th possibly very early 20th Century piece.
Good luck with it.

[fancypants]

Here's an image of a print very much like yours , marcylove ; it's from a live auction site , with an estimated value of $60 to $80 (starting bid @ $30) .

[marcylove]

Yes, Eli Smith was my father in law who passed away.  He put is name on everything.

Thanks!

[Oceans64]

Marcy - Do you know where he would have picked these up?

The writing on the back of the picture is different than the ones on the frame.  The script on the frame appears older.  Again, I'm no expert but I have seen countless example of older handwriting. In your opinion does it read Allen M (on the frame) - Maybe an initial before the Allen?

I'm intrigued by these!

[marcylove]

Oceans: It looks like maybe an 'F'.  I don't have the paintings with me, but next time I'm at the house I'll look at them some more.

Fancypants: Thanks for the link. They are remarkably similar, but I'm pretty sure these are paintings, again, I'll double check next time I'm at the house.

 

[Oceans64]

Are they sitting in an empty house and are you the administrator of the estate?  If so I might pull them out and take them home for safekeeping.  If they are original oil on canvas and date in the 1800's they could be quite valuable (says the person who knows nothing about art   )

I read today that there are no known paintings of Jackson that were done in his lifetime (he d. 1863) and the oldest known portraits are hanging in the Virginia Millitary Institute and date to 1868.  The script certainly looks 19th century to me (on the frame) but, peoples handwritting doesn't change just because the century did so they could be early 20th. Maybe not original frame either...

I have been searching for when the technology emerged to do prints on canvas (from a negative) but haven't had much luck.  

[marcylove]

They are sitting at my Father-in-law's house (who passed away), and there are three children going through the house (my husband is the oldest).  There is no executor, so everyone is going through everything.  It's been great and fair so far...

I'm a stay at home mom so I have been going through the house on my own sorting through books mostly, (he has hundreds if not thousands), and taking pictures of things that everyone thinks may or may not be valuable.  My husband and I love researching things and are avid roadshow and american picker watchers.

I sent an email to the National Portrait Gallery, hopefully I'll get something back...

That's interesting about no known paintings of Jackson...again I'll take more pictures of the surface, I just don't want to remove them from the frame (they are behind glass).

I do know that there is a liquid you can paint on any surface to make it sensitive to light and print from negetive (I did it on glass once) but I don't remember what it was called...

 Thanks Oceans!

[Oceans64]

No problem...  I just think they're wonderful (old or not). 

Just the sort of thing I will have hanging in my completely restored historic home that I do not currently own and only dream about!!   

Do let us know what you find out.