Author Topic: Antique Paintings of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson  (Read 19614 times)

marcylove

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Re: Antique Paintings of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2010, 11:49:30 pm »
Went back to the house today and took some more pictures.  Upon closer inspection I did not see any brush strokes.  Hubby said "Hey there were no brushstrokes on the Mona Lisa!"  Somehow i doubt Da Vinci painted these.   :-X

But I took more pictures anyway, including the way the thing was put together, more closeups, the canvas and more pics of the signature on the frame.

I did get a response back from Christie's  ;D and they said they forwarded the pics to an expert for review.  So I should know soon enough!

marcylove

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Re: Antique Paintings of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2010, 11:51:09 pm »
...

waywardangler

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Re: Antique Paintings of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2010, 11:57:21 pm »
You really need to take these out from under the glass to inspect the painted canvas.

marcylove

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Re: Antique Paintings of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2010, 12:19:51 am »
i agree...it's just a matter of getting the 'permission' from the other siblings to do so...it can be frustrating at times  :(

mariok54

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Re: Antique Paintings of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2010, 01:28:58 am »
There is the conundrum ... Take it out from under the frame for a close inspection and you can find out a lot more, on the other hand there are a lot of buyers who like to see that the backing has not been disturbed/replaced as it helps to guarantee that the painting is contemporary with the frame, or even earlier. I have a couple of paintings hanging with the backs looking like they could have done with replacing 50 years ago. Possibly wait until you hear back from the expert?

Oceans64

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Re: Antique Paintings of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2010, 07:54:05 am »
I would wait to hear back but agree that they probably need to be removed, cleaned and placed back in frames.  If you get a professional to do it they probably "certify" that every thing is originial (from their inspection).  The key here might be a third party...  Or take pics every step of the way if you DIY meaning - remove from frames to inspect.

In looking yesterday I noticed something about Lee - probably minor but...  There are very few photos showing him in profile looking to the right when he is in uniform.  I think I have seen 2 and neither are of your painting.  The one I can think of he is standing and the uniform is dark.  Granted I am only looking at pics on the net.  A trip to the library might prove me wrong.  It would be easy to use the face of one pic and paint the uniform in I suppose (HA! I can barely draw a stick figure). Just thought it was interesting....

Thanks for posting more pics. I am so intrigued by these!  

At least I know more of Jackson & Lee history now  :)  
« Last Edit: October 23, 2010, 07:58:32 am by Oceans64 »
"In times like these, it is helpful to remember that there have always been times like these." — Paul Harvey

marcylove

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Re: Antique Paintings of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2010, 09:40:52 am »
hahaha TELL me about it oceans!  Next time i'm with all the children I will talk to them about it.  I'll keep you all informed!

regularjoe2

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Re: Antique Paintings of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2010, 11:12:55 am »
Marcylove , concerning your original 1st post question about the age of the painting of General Lee :

I'm very uncertain of the date of origin of your painting , however -

The image depicts Lee in a CSA uniform , with the three stars  'rank' of a colonel in the Confederate Army , which he had joined on April 23rd , 1861 .

Lee was appointed one of the first 5 generals in the CSA , but he continued to wear the three stars of a colonel for the duration of his service in the Confederate Army .
He personally indended to wear the rank of General on his uniform only after the war had ended .

Regarding the questions about conservation of your item(s) , I'd suggest you locate an art conservator in your area & take it to them for assessment (this is usually free) regarding work needed on each item .
Professional conservators work with standard rates (per square inch/centimeter) for the variety of services they provide & can quote you FIRM prices for their work .
They can & will photo-document disassembly & conservation of items (for a price) , so as to be able to verify exact condition before , during & after conservation work happens (it's great to have such documentation , with valuable artwork , to 'cut-off' any 'bargain-hunting' critiques by prospective buyers) .

Quite often , but not always , unknown/unseen details (both 'good & bad') will be revealed during & after disassembly of framing elements .
« Last Edit: October 23, 2010, 11:25:43 am by regularjoe2 »

marcylove

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Re: Antique Paintings of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2010, 01:45:52 pm »
Thanks regularjoe!  ood information!

 :D

marcylove

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Re: Antique Paintings of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2010, 02:15:36 pm »
Hubby brought home one of the prints last night and before I knew it took it out of the fram, stating that his father did it all the time.  So instead of voiceing my opinion, I grabbed the camera.  I was immeadiately hit with the fact that it was a print and not a painting.

There was no signature, and was clearly printed on woven paper attached to the underlying canvas.  There were spots where someone tried to paint over, which was clearly paint and not ink.  I broke out my loupe and saw a matrix instead of pure ink, but it was an irregular matrix and not dots.  There are also specks of gold showing through the ink around the edes of the print.

I then found a blog:
http://antiqueprintsblog.blogspot.com/search/label/Print%20Processes
(scroll down to chromolithographs)

and

http://antiqueprintsblog.blogspot.com/search/label/Print%20makers

(scroll down to E.C. middleton)

so I am convinced that these are original chromolithographs.  This process became popular around the civil war era, so that only makes sense.  I'm going to email the blogger and try to get his opinion.

marcylove

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Re: Antique Paintings of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2010, 02:36:26 pm »
more...


Oceans64

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Re: Antique Paintings of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2010, 03:32:37 pm »
Very Cool!!  Still reading
"In times like these, it is helpful to remember that there have always been times like these." — Paul Harvey

KC

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Re: Antique Paintings of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2010, 11:44:30 am »
Neat find.....
I'm from the South - but please don't mistake my Southern Manners/Accent/Charm as a weakness!

marcylove

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Re: Antique Paintings of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2010, 06:33:53 pm »
ok, so i got a reply from Chris Lane from the Philadelphia Printshop, and Antiques Roadshow...This is what he said:

"I suspect these are by Middleton.  Your picture of the back does not show the canvas itself.  Have you looked at the back of the canvas?  Even if not by Middleton, they are clearly chromolithographs and have a similar history to the Middletons. 

For how we can help with values, please read what we say at www.philaprintshop. com/apprais.html"

So that is somewhat exciting news.  Now it's just up to my husband and his brother and sister to decide what they want to do!

Thanks for everybody's input and suggestions on this one!

 :D