Author Topic: An old miniature painting ... but by whom?  (Read 6119 times)

mariok54

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An old miniature painting ... but by whom?
« on: October 24, 2010, 01:00:59 pm »
Hello All.. I know that this is a long shot, as it's already been to the experts and valuers in the local auction houses, but I bought this little miniature some time ago. It is a copy of a very famous painting, on porcelain and in oil. It is probably mid 19th century, and most probably has always been in the same frame, which I know more about because Alphonse Giroux was a very famous maker of cameras, brass pieces and such like.
It is a great shame that the frame is slightly damaged, but there we are.
I'm afraid that I've photographed it against a £1 coin, which might be meaningless to many of you, but it's bigger than a cent. I personally believe that this is a painting of fairly good quality, but the valuations vary by over 100%. However, the actual price isn't so important, what I'd like to try to find out is 'who was the artist'? ... S/he was obviously a very accomplished artist, in my opinion, and the frame must have been very expensive at the time (Giroux was not cheap) ... so who was s/he?????
Any ideas as to where to go? (other than local auction houses)  :)
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 01:19:17 pm by mariok54 »

Oceans64

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Re: An old miniature painting ... but by whom?
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2010, 01:07:12 pm »
Have to go now but can't wait to look later... 

What is the time span that Giroux was making frames?
"In times like these, it is helpful to remember that there have always been times like these." — Paul Harvey

mariok54

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Re: An old miniature painting ... but by whom?
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2010, 01:10:54 pm »
Hi Oceans.. You can imagine that I've probably spent a few hours Googling, but, as yet, never come across a frame made by Giroux.... everything else but! (well, not quite everything ... never seen a Giroux keyboard or chocolate biscuit)  :)

ps  In perfect condition, the frame might be worth more than the painting!!!! ::)

Whoever s/he was ... s/he may not have been absolutely adept at painting babies, but s/he sure could capture the beauty of motherhood, possibly more so than Raphael did in his original.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 01:17:15 pm by mariok54 »

gingertomantiques

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mariok54

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Re: An old miniature painting ... but by whom?
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2010, 02:47:57 pm »
Hi Gingertom,
Thanks for the post ... I've never used a big Auction House like them before as I always assumed that they may be a little pricey? The lowest estimate that I got for the painting + Frame was £200 - £300, and if they're right then might going to Bonhams or Christies be eating into a big chunk of the value? Any advice would be most welcome.

sapphire

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« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 03:04:55 pm by sapphire »


mariok54

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Re: An old miniature painting ... but by whom?
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2010, 03:09:24 pm »
Hi Sapphire,

Many thanks for that.. it's amazing that you've actually managed to come up with not one, but three Giroux frames, when I didn't even manage one!!! As I suspected, it is possibly quite valuable in its own right, so I think I did really quite well when I bought it. I'm not interested in selling, but it is good to know... and also thanks for the other links, but I have a feeling that the artist will remain forever Anon ... How did/do they manage to paint such beautiful paintings on such small 'canvasses'?

I have seen quite a few other miniatures of  the 'Madonna della seggiola' but a lot are very crudely painted and never one as 'cute' as this one.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 03:29:46 pm by mariok54 »

sapphire

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Re: An old miniature painting ... but by whom?
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2010, 03:22:29 pm »
Another frame by Giroux. This one states pre ban ivory.  I don't have a membership on this site so cannot access the selling price.

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/french-bronze-frame-alphonse-giroux-pre-ban

KC

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Re: An old miniature painting ... but by whom?
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2010, 04:15:50 pm »
This will help out!!!!!

Francis Simon Alphonse Giroux, cabinetmaker and official restorer of Notre Dame, “Maison Alphonse Giroux” also known as “Giroux & Cie” specialized in producing ornate objects d’art and technically sophisticated furniture. Patronized by various members of the French Royal Family, including Louis XVIII, Charles X, Henri V, and Napoleon III, the design house was particularly known for fine ormolu, japanning/lacquer work and exquisite furniture.
The business was taken over by his eldest son, Alphonse Gustave Giroux in 1838. Under his guidance and innovative planning, the business grew to become one of the first and most prestigious department stores in Paris, while continuing to take important commissions for custom work. Pieces made for the department store were marked “Maison Giroux,” while Alphonse Gustave Giroux signed commissioned pieces himself, as in the case of this assiette signed “Mon. Alph - Giroux Paris.”
Alphonse Giroux was fascinated with mechanics and new technology. Alphonse Gustave received a silver medal at the 1839 Exposition des l’Industrie Francaise and produced pieces for the World Exposition of 1855. Some of his most unusual known creations are: a mechanical clock-work horse and carriage for the crown prince, an automaton of a violin player seated on a barrel and a lavishly detailed lifelike doll wearing a regal gown and crown of antique fabrics with seed pearls, presented at the 1867 Paris Universal Exposition to represent the glorious legacy of French Royalty.
Of additional historical significance was Maison Giroux’s role in producing the first commercial camera under the direction of Mr. Daguerreotype, which forever changed visual history and revolutionized the art world.
The first practical photographic process, Daguerreotypes, aptly called a “mirror with a memory,” definitively changed the way humans perceive the visual world.
The first daguerreotypes were mirrored images, but nonetheless depicted reality with astounding accuracy – unattainable by earlier techniques. Paintings, engravings, drawings, and sculpture could emulate reality but were always filtered through a human lens. For the first time it was possible to capture an objective, scientific image.
http://urbanchateau.com/library/articles/giroux
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regularjoe2

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Re: An old miniature painting ... but by whom?
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2010, 06:00:44 pm »
Early photgraphic inventors seemed to kinda like the idea of incorporating their names with suffixes such as "-type" &/or the prefix "calo-" .

The fellows' name that was mentioned in KCs' post was really Louis J.M. Daguerre .

Cool little item , mariok54 .

I'm curious to know if any of the framing elements (besides nails & etc.) happen to be attracted to a magnet ?




Oceans64

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Re: An old miniature painting ... but by whom?
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2010, 09:24:46 pm »
Not alot to add but it is interesting that Sapphires link http://forum.findartinfo.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6098 is regarding another Mary, Jesus and John the Baptist painting housed in a Giroux frame.  One person commented how they saw the influence of Rapheal and your picture is reproducing one of his.

Another interesting similarity from reading Sapphires links...  Alphonse Giroux studied painting under  Jacques-Louis David before going a different direction.  Another of David's students Jean Auguste Dominique Ingres painted the 'Madonna della seggiola' in the background of at least 3 of his paintings:  Henri IV playing with his children, Raphael and La Fornarina and Nepolean on His Throne (Left border of carpet - I don't see it but it's there - lol)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HenriIVenfants.jpg
narina.jpg" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IngresRaffaelAndFor narina.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ingres,_Napoleon_on_his_Imperial_throne.jpg

Info on David
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques-Louis_David

Info on Ingres
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingres



"In times like these, it is helpful to remember that there have always been times like these." — Paul Harvey

KC

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Re: An old miniature painting ... but by whom?
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2010, 01:23:04 am »
I guess what I was really trying to say is that I believe it is from their store.

They sold many different items from different artists.....
I'm from the South - but please don't mistake my Southern Manners/Accent/Charm as a weakness!

mariok54

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Re: An old miniature painting ... but by whom?
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2010, 02:14:54 am »
Many thanks to Oceans, KC and Sapphire !!!!! (beginning to sound like an Oscar speech) ... although a good slice of this morning seems to have just vanished following all those links!  :)

Wouldn't it be nice if the painting were by Ingres, or even Giroux himself, but although fairly accomplished I don't think the quality is there for Ingres   :(

Hi Regularjoe thanks, and in response, no, there is no attraction at all to a magnet

mariok54

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Re: An old miniature painting ... but by whom?
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2010, 03:42:06 am »
Hi all... I carefully dismantled the thing, (and put it back together in one piece!) looking for a signature or some sort of identification. Unfortunately nothing but the number 65 on the back of the porcelain plate.
But a few more photos for you Hawkeyes  out there  :)