Author Topic: 1890's Low-Brow Chinahead Doll - Need Confirmation its not a Repro  (Read 8360 times)

talesofthesevenseas

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Look what I found at the thrift store today! I thought it had to be a repro, but it doesn't appear to be. I saw it, said "Oh dear God!" grabbed it quick and paid $5.50 for it! I think I've got myself an 1890's "low-brow" chinahead that I think may have a replacement cloth body wired and stuffed with sawdust.

First I looked at the condition of the head- a few tiny paint rubs and chips, one little black mark by her corner of her mouth which looks to be very typical of the little scars these dolls can get when they are fired in the kiln. There are a couple of others on the back of her shoulders. The porcelain doesn't look modern, there are tiny flaws and imperfections in the glaze. It's hard to see in the photos but they are little bumps and dimples under th glaze:



She was dressed in a 1960's-looking homemade pants outfit that was sewn closed. I had to open the seam at the neck to get the body out.



Underneath she had a set of  homemade underwear on, that seems to be made from mom's 1960's girdle.



The body looks to be a combination of machine and hand stitching. The seems in the body look like they are machine stitched, very uniform and close together. However the stitching to attach the limbs is definitely hand-stitched and some is coming loose. It is also hand-stitched around the legs where they are attached. I was hoping to see more wear and staining on the body, which is what makes me think it may be a "doll hospital" replacement. You can see one of the internal wires poking out on her left leg, about mid-thigh. On the backs of the thighs the seams are off from each other, which again makes me think this is either an original body in very good shape or repair shop's replacement. The seams are on the backs of the thighs, not on the sides.



This is what has me pretty certain she is not a repro- Under the clothing the shoulders are marked "Germany" and it's stamped in the porcelain and glazed over. From what I have read so far, the vast majority of these dolls were made in Germany and the glaze has a lot of the little bumps and dimples you typically see on these chinaheads. It isn't perfect and uniform like a modern repro. Also I haven't seen repros with these feverishly burnng cheeks like this one has. That was my first clue that this might be authentic was those cheeks. Repros usually have more of a subtle pink blush that people like better nowadays. There are bits of old glue flaking and coming out from under the head. Also another clue that if this is a replacement body it was done quite some time ago. By the 1890's I think the bodies would have been machine sewn though, so I'm not entirely sure.



The legs look very authentic with big bulbous calves and painted blue ribbons and brown shoes. There is an repair to one leg, pretty severe break glued back together, also some remenants of old glue visible around the break. The forearms are also bulbous. The forearms are unglazed, unlike the legs and head. (I have another chinahead that is this way too so I think these are the original arms)



I think she's the real thing but would like to get your feedback on what you think.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 06:04:36 pm by talesofthesevenseas »
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Oceans64

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Re: 1890's Low-Brow Chinahead Doll - Need Confirmation its not a Repro
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2010, 06:06:04 pm »
WOW Tales!!!  I know nothing about this but can't wait to see where this thread goes...  What section did you find her in?
"In times like these, it is helpful to remember that there have always been times like these." — Paul Harvey

talesofthesevenseas

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Re: 1890's Low-Brow Chinahead Doll - Need Confirmation its not a Repro
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2010, 06:13:25 pm »
The "Collectables" section, which is kind of a mix of antiques and non-antiques. I'm sure they thought she was a repro or they would have priced her higher than $5.50.
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hosman321

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Re: 1890's Low-Brow Chinahead Doll - Need Confirmation its not a Repro
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2010, 06:17:17 pm »
Awesome score tales! She sure looks and sounds real! I'll be happy to watch and see where this goes, too.

talesofthesevenseas

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Re: 1890's Low-Brow Chinahead Doll - Need Confirmation its not a Repro
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2010, 06:41:18 pm »
Found some good info on identifying authentic vs. repro:

http://dollreference.com/china_head_dolls.html

http://reviews.ebay.com/Antique-China-Dolls-dating-and-detecting-repros_W0QQugidZ10000000000851149
Apparently Hertwig used the "Germany" mark and it's in the right place, low on the shoulder.





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waywardangler

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Re: 1890's Low-Brow Chinahead Doll - Need Confirmation its not a Repro
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2010, 07:04:56 pm »
Nice find, Tales, but I know nothing about dolls.  I hope it is old.

talesofthesevenseas

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Re: 1890's Low-Brow Chinahead Doll - Need Confirmation its not a Repro
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2010, 07:12:00 pm »
I found a local doll hospital place. I may run it in next week, that's probably a good way to sort out what is old and what isn't.
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Oceans64

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Re: 1890's Low-Brow Chinahead Doll - Need Confirmation its not a Repro
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2010, 07:33:37 pm »
I am slowly trying to get through the eBay ones.  I haven't seen one with shading around the eyes. Have you read anything about that?  I figure eBay for mostly repro TBH.  Maybe need to find a collector site but now.... I'm thinking out loud   ;D
"In times like these, it is helpful to remember that there have always been times like these." — Paul Harvey

talesofthesevenseas

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Re: 1890's Low-Brow Chinahead Doll - Need Confirmation its not a Repro
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2010, 07:53:53 pm »
I am not seeing the shading on the eyes either, not on antique or repro. I think because the faces are hand-painted on that there is a lot of variation to them. It is hard to even tell if I've got the same mold model as some because the little variations in painting gives them each a different look. I think you're right I'll need to do some posting on a collectors forum or run her in to the doll hospital place to get a good idea of what she is.

...and in the meantime I guess I'll be sewing doll clothes, LOL!
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wendy177

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Re: 1890's Low-Brow Chinahead Doll - Need Confirmation its not a Repro
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2010, 08:42:29 pm »
 Tales I also think the body has been replaced but very very well done!! I have seen some German dolls with the eye sockets heavily shadowed and as you said each artist had diffrent techniques. I believe you are close with dating and if I had to guess I would also say Hertwig. I think you have a little boy, Head & legs look original but something about the arms looks off. The blue painting on the legs are garter bands tied bows. best bet like you said  would be to run it over to your local doll hospital place for a hands on look and let us know what you find. 

ironlord1963

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Re: 1890's Low-Brow Chinahead Doll - Need Confirmation its not a Repro
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2010, 09:26:25 pm »
Don't know beans about Dolls except for the tid bits I picked up here, but could not help but notice the really cool Blue Colbalt Glass on the floorboard    ;)

talesofthesevenseas

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Re: 1890's Low-Brow Chinahead Doll - Need Confirmation its not a Repro
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2010, 10:02:48 pm »
IronLord, that was the other thrift store find today- a cobalt blue cassarole dish!
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talesofthesevenseas

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Re: 1890's Low-Brow Chinahead Doll - Need Confirmation its not a Repro
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2010, 02:30:15 am »
*Whew!!* It's 12:30, but I finished the dress, thought I'd show you guys how it turned out:







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Oceans64

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Re: 1890's Low-Brow Chinahead Doll - Need Confirmation its not a Repro
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2010, 07:43:32 am »
Very nice dress Tales. How did you do that w/o a pattern?  You are quite a seamstress!!! 

I do have to ask tho....  What if Wendy's right and it's a boy???
"In times like these, it is helpful to remember that there have always been times like these." — Paul Harvey

waywardangler

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Re: 1890's Low-Brow Chinahead Doll - Need Confirmation its not a Repro
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2010, 08:05:01 am »
It's a fancy boy then, Oceans.  A very fancy boy.