Author Topic: Bronze elephant question  (Read 3478 times)

genepix

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Bronze elephant question
« on: November 22, 2010, 01:05:00 pm »
My father brought this back from the Korean War as a going away gift from his houseboy.  A member here identified it as South Korean, but I have not been able to locate another one anywhere.  I was told it was a Chinese incense burner from the Ming Dynasty.  I would appreciate any additional information that might be out there.  Thanks.

talesofthesevenseas

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6124
  • Karma: +35/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bronze elephant question
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2010, 02:06:41 pm »
First let me say that I love your elephat, however old he turns out to be! What a neat piece and I think that the "house boy" must have thought really thought quite highly of your dad!

The term "Ming Dynasty" refers to the ruling dynasty of China from 1368 to 1644. Could you please take some photos showing the decorative saddle details? This would help to determine if it is Chinese or something else if we could see (or not see) some typical Chinese themes in the artwork. Chinese art is full of layered meanings and symbolism. Also if you could flip him over and take a photo of his underside so that we can see how he is held together. Construction techniques sometimes tell us a whole lot!

Antiqueaholic in recovery

genepix

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bronze elephant question
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2010, 02:16:45 pm »
Thank you- I will try to make some more photos by the weekend.

talesofthesevenseas

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6124
  • Karma: +35/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bronze elephant question
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2010, 02:56:31 pm »
Found a couple that are similar This does seem to be an incense burner. I'm finding several in this style simply by running a google search for elephant incense.

This one is listed as being Japanese and dated at about 1900...
http://www.trocadero.com/kodoarts/items/780150/item780150store.html



and this one...

http://www.nadeausauction.com/lotdetails/?lot=82615




Antiqueaholic in recovery

olecanalantiques

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 251
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Kevin
    • View Profile
    • Ole Canal Antiques
Re: Bronze elephant question
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2010, 06:27:00 pm »
For a minute there i thought i was going to open the thread and see one of those elephant cigarette rollers lol..

Nice piece though, thanks for sharing :)
Ole Canal Antiques

KC

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11661
  • Karma: +93/-0
  • Forever Blessed!
    • View Profile
Re: Bronze elephant question
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2010, 10:43:19 am »
In Tibet it is believed that Buddha came back as an elephant several times and is considered the symbol of Mental Strength. At the beginning of one's religious practice of Buddhism,  the unrefined or uncontrolled mind is symbolized as a gray elephant (one who can run wild and destroy everything in it's way). After immersing oneself and "taming one's mind", the controlled mind is symbolized by a white elephant who is strong/powerful - able to be directed  and yet can destroy all obstacles on his way.  The elephant is the vehicle of the Aksobhya and the deity Balabadra. The elephant is a guardian of the temples and of Buddha himself.

In Tibetan art it is representing strength/control/steadfastness and enduring of the World/Realm of Buddhism.  I believe that your elephant represents Wat Phratat Doi Suthep or Doi Suthep Temple. It has two large golden statues of Buddha in their beautifully and intricately designed buildings, a large golden pagoda-like structure or stupa which enshrines the Buddha’s relics, a large parasol at each corner of the stupa, a chanting house with two legendary crocodiles in front and a white statue of an elephant standing in front of the grand temple in honor of the elephant which brought the Buddha’s relics to the top of the mountain.

Symbolism in Asian cultures consider the elephant as on of their most positive symbols....a very strong symbol Of Good Luck, wisdom, strength, prosperity, steadfastness.
The elephant was held by royalty so it is admired, it attains old age -  and with old age comes wisdom. They Are Highly Revered For Their Strength And Power.  It is tradition to be placed high upon a shelf/mantel for recognition.  The trunk facing upward on a  elephant represents a strong symbol of Good Luck and the elephant is trumpeting the good news.  Interesting enough they are not to face the front door - but are place near the entrance of a home.  The placement of a Frog on an Elephant, or a Monkey on an Elephant, in the North, promotes career stability.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2010, 10:55:50 am by KC »
I'm from the South - but please don't mistake my Southern Manners/Accent/Charm as a weakness!

genepix

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bronze elephant question
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2010, 09:06:47 am »
Great history lesson- thanks for sharing! :)

genepix

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bronze elephant question
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2010, 09:57:26 am »
Here are some more detailed photos of the bronze elephant.  Thanks for any information you might have.

genepix

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bronze elephant question
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2010, 10:00:47 am »
final pix of the elephant...Thanks :)

talesofthesevenseas

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6124
  • Karma: +35/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bronze elephant question
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2010, 10:42:04 pm »
Well, I was hoping that something would really scream Chinese at me in the up close pix, but I don't see anything that looks like the classic symbolic art. The only thing that rings a bell to me are the petals around the liter on his back, which I believe are lotus petals. The lotus is symbolic of purity, growing out of the muck of the pond, but emerges unsoiled. It is symbolic of both purity and of striving on through difficulties. One clue to his origins are his ears. He is an Asian elephant rather than an African one, but that was pretty obvious from the liter/pagoda on his back already.

It does I can't see anything that would indicate later construction like machined screws etc., my guess is that it would date to approximately the same time period as the similar examples. It may be hard to get more specific than that unless we could locate a second one, which doesn't seem likely.

Wish I could be of more help with this one!
Antiqueaholic in recovery

waywardangler

  • Guest
Re: Bronze elephant question
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2010, 01:51:31 am »
Those two screws keeping the howdah on look like phillips head screws but the holes they go in do not look threaded?  How do the two screws stay in the holes genepix?  
« Last Edit: November 26, 2010, 01:54:00 am by waywardangler »

genepix

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bronze elephant question
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2010, 05:47:09 am »
Correct- not threaded.  The screws are just some old ones I found in the garage- not original to the elephant....

KC

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11661
  • Karma: +93/-0
  • Forever Blessed!
    • View Profile
Re: Bronze elephant question
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2010, 02:33:43 pm »
In other words, how-da' "Howdah" stay on with out the screws?  :P
I'm from the South - but please don't mistake my Southern Manners/Accent/Charm as a weakness!

genepix

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bronze elephant question
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2010, 11:25:18 am »
The pagoda will rest on top without assistance- I let the screws just hang in the holes to stabilize it in case I inadvertently bump it while walking by or dusting...

genepix

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Bronze elephant question
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2011, 01:14:27 pm »
I posted here a few years ago and received a tiny bit of info regarding a bronze elephant my father brought back from the Korean War.  A local antique dealer once told me it was an incense burner from the Ming Dynasty.  Another forum member suggested it was Korean.  In all these years, I have never seen another like it, so I am renewing my question to anyone with knowledge about this priceless to me artifact.  Thanks!