Cabinet...

[jacon4]

Tales, no, thats not correct, turning was happening alot in the 16th & 17th centuries. Furniture, up until the 18th century was built by joiners, not cabinet makers. They did not saw boards much either, it was riven (split) from green wood, planed into boards or turning stock and then assembled into various furniture forms. This form of construction is called frame and panel. For a more complete description of how this was done, check out this site.

http://pfollansbee.wordpress.com/

[jacon4]

Actually, once upon a time, when men were men & women and kids sat on stools (lol, sorry ladies,i couldnt resist, i have just returned from an office xmas party)

Chairs are very rare prior to the 18th century, only kings or wealthy men sat on them, most folks sat on joined stools and, those stools were turned.

[talesofthesevenseas]

Thanks for the link, but I'm afraid I am still kinda unconvinced that turning was commonplace in the 18th century. Big emphasis on the word commonplace. No doubt that it was around then and had been for thousands of years. I'm not doubting the age of your table at all.   But what I'm reading is saying that prior to mechanization it was out of the ordinary. If anything, I think this makes your piece more special.

Here's a good one on lathe history, looking at it from the angle of the technology rather than craft.
http://www.stuartking.co.uk/index.php/history-of-the-lathe-part-one-reciprocal-motion/

[jacon4]

Tales, actually,turning was quite common, almost a separate trade. It was much cheaper and easier than frame and panel construction plus, no carving, another expense.

[talesofthesevenseas]

OK, interesting.

[jacon4]

Tales, there are only 24 or so known american pilgrim century (1620-1690) wainscot chairs (frame & panel) however, there are hundreds of "turners chairs" that are known. When Wallace Nutting wrote American Furniture Treasury in 1926, there were only 6 known american wainscot chairs. Check out this link, Pilgrim Hall Museum, click chairs

 http://www.pilgrimhall.org/F-chairs.htm

[jacon4]

Tales, I just read the entire Stuart King article you posted and for the life of me ( pretty informative article), i dont see any reference to turning being rare prior to the 1880s. Let us think about the 18th century for a moment and consider it was the first time in human history that large numbers of regular type folks sat in chairs and, what kind of chairs were dominate during that period? Windsor chairs, which were turned from the legs & stretchers to the spindles which formed the backs, indeed, about the only thing thats not turned on a windsor chair is the seat. Am i missing something here?

[hosman321]

Now that I search for it specifically, I am seeing quite a bit of turned furniture, tools and utensils from the 1700's on ebay. I think it's fair to say that it was pretty common in the 1700's. I am seeing milk containers and other containers that are lathe turned more often than other pieces. Just go to the antiques section on ebay and type in "lathe turned", "1700's turned" or "turned wood". I guess we learn something new every day tales! Of course, it became much more common in the late 1800's.

[cogar]

The early lathes were "foot powered" like a tredal sewing machine.

There was a TV series back sometime ago on PBS titled "The Woodworker", or "The Yankee Woodworker" ..... or something similar and was produced at the University of North Carolina. Anyway, the fellow that MC'ed it would make something out of wood bout every time it aired ..... but he only did it "the old fashion way" ..... with the "old fashion tools".

Anyway, in one program he was making a chair I believe, cutting the leg or spindle on a foot powered lathe ...... and was really working up a sweat to "get er dun".

Watching how he done it is how I learned to hand-cut "dovetail" joints. Plus several other old timer "tricks-of-the-trade" which came in handy when repairing older pieces or making quasi repos. 

[waywardangler]

I believe the show you are referring to cogar, is The Woodright's Shop with Roy Underhill.  http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/index.html

He is still on and I have watched some of his shows also.  He always uses the old hand tools, foot lathes, foot-powered belt driven machines, etc.  Very informative.

[sapphire]

Thanks for that link wayward!   Bookmarked! 

[talesofthesevenseas]

Perhaps I'm guilty of making the assumption that it was not widely available to most people. I am extremely wary of anything turned that people claim is 18th century, unless they have some kind of provenance or other elements they can point to to back up that claim, simply because the 1880's where when it became mechanized and turned furniture, like turned Victorian "gingerbread" architectural elements became hugely popularized and turned stuff was everywhere.

[waywardangler]

Tales, I think you are mainly talking about machine produced turnings while others are talking about treadle powered turnings and then I think you are correct.  I do not think men running foot powered lathes were producing small parts like victorian gingerbread parts because it was too time consuming and not cost effective.  Duplicating lathes changed all that.  Part after part after part could be turned out and they were all basically identical.  Just like machined screws, nails, etc.  Sure, they were turning chair parts in the 1700s but the maker spent a lot of time with a calipers to get each spindle the same.  Handmade chairs from the 18th and 17th centuries are also going to show certain tool marks in the unfinished portions.  That would be the construction parts I would be concentrating on when purchasing early furniture.

[talesofthesevenseas]

Yes, Wayward you summed it up much more eloquently than I did! Is there a way to tell mechanically turned versus treadle lathe turned by looking at the object? Maybe some kind of wobble or inconsistancy?

[waywardangler]

I'm thinking if you had a caliper along and measured different sections of one spindle, on a foot powered lathe turned one you will find some larger and smaller diameters in the same measured spots on the other spindles.  On machine turned ones they would be identical unless the master pattern was worn. If the maker did not check the turnings carefully, you could probably tell fatness and thiness differences just by eyeballing it. I would not think there would be any wobble as lathes turn objects round.  If it wobbles in the lathe while turning, there is a problem.  I haven't tested this theory but it sounds good.  Underneath chair seats would be saw marks or hand plane marks or later power planed surfaces.