Author Topic: Copper & Iron Fish Pan: Trash or Treasure?  (Read 5164 times)

talesofthesevenseas

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6124
  • Karma: +35/-0
    • View Profile
Copper & Iron Fish Pan: Trash or Treasure?
« on: November 30, 2010, 06:36:29 pm »
I've reeled in another catch at my favorite thrift store, but is this one is a keeper, or if I should throw it back?

This is a copper and iron fish pan, and it is most definitely hand forged and formed, constructed with rivets, all different sizes, and crudely cut ironwork. The bowl appears to be hammered, but I'll know more tonight when I clean it. Someone put some time and effort into this, and I don't see anyone making something like this just for fun/decoration in modern times. However, I see no sign of it having been used over a fire, but something may show up when I clean it tonight, it's VERY tarnished.

In truth, I've never seen anything quite like this. I looked online and found a couple of very similar antique fish pans with this style of handle attachment and other molds with similar fish in them, but nothing quite like this one. I took the bait and paid $1.60 for it.















Antiqueaholic in recovery

wendy177

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2068
  • Karma: +17/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Copper & Iron Fish Pan: Trash or Treasure?
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2010, 06:53:21 pm »
Tales I really like this piece my first thought was you would put some type of pastry in the base then  filling , and bottom ( like a pot pie ) and turn it out when cooked to leave the little fish design & the marked edges.

talesofthesevenseas

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6124
  • Karma: +35/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Copper & Iron Fish Pan: Trash or Treasure?
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2010, 07:01:53 pm »
I like it too, I can't wait to clean it up at home tonight. It will look great hanging in the kitchen. I'm finding similar old ones going for some pretty good $$.

This one is described as "19th century" and has an auction estimate of $150 - $250



A "copper fish pan" in an antiques estate sale, with no other info:

http://www.bluemoonantiquesraleigh.com/photo-gallery.php?id=31


Look at the similarity in the handle attachment on this one, which is dated 1860 and selling for $95 OBO ...This fish is beginning to smell like a keeper:
http://www.bonanza.com/booths/BARNTIQUES859/items/antique_copper_pan_iron_handle_tin_lined_c_1860
Antiqueaholic in recovery

wendy177

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2068
  • Karma: +17/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Copper & Iron Fish Pan: Trash or Treasure?
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2010, 07:08:35 pm »
That handle is so  so close to yours  I say definitely a keeper!!!

hosman321

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2231
  • Karma: +5/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Copper & Iron Fish Pan: Trash or Treasure?
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2010, 07:10:28 pm »
Awesome find tales! Looks genuinely old to me, that'd be great if it is from the 1860's!

OLDZ06

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Copper & Iron Fish Pan: Trash or Treasure?
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2010, 07:28:04 pm »
Nice catch, its a keeper.

Oceans64

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1427
  • Karma: +5/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Copper & Iron Fish Pan: Trash or Treasure?
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2010, 07:33:11 pm »
Keeper for sure...  If if it's just kinda old!!  So unusual...
"In times like these, it is helpful to remember that there have always been times like these." — Paul Harvey

talesofthesevenseas

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6124
  • Karma: +35/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Copper & Iron Fish Pan: Trash or Treasure?
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2010, 07:41:27 pm »
I'm seeing a color difference between the front and back sides of the pan. I think the pan might be tinned on the interior side. It will be interesting to see what I find under the tarnish.
Antiqueaholic in recovery

waywardangler

  • Guest
Re: Copper & Iron Fish Pan: Trash or Treasure?
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2010, 10:48:05 pm »
I am going to throw some water on the fish.  :-\ I do not like the fresh red rust by the rivets.  My personal opinion, but every piece of iron I have seen with that new rust was new made to look old.  Aside from that concern, the price is great and the fish pan looks great.  A nice wall hanger with a great presence.

talesofthesevenseas

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6124
  • Karma: +35/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Copper & Iron Fish Pan: Trash or Treasure?
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2010, 12:20:59 am »
You were right about the rust Wayward, the handle wasn't iron at all. It is cut out of flat metal, some grade of steel I guess. A magnet sticks to it and it was covered with rust. You can see the cut marks on the sides of the handle. The handle "supports" are the same kind of metal, but they are some kind of round stock, with the ends flattened out.

I think this is antique and handmade. The copper is all hand hammered and it is tinned or zinc coated (not quite sure how to tell) on the inside of the bowl, you can really see it now that it is clean. I think they quit doing that in the thirties when they found out it was harmful to cook in it. Compare the first and second photos below.

Take a look at the third photo below, the tin is wearing through to the copper below the fish, and the fish is very worn down, the designs on the walls of the bowl are visible above the fish, but worn away on the rest of it.

A magnet does not stick to the copper or tin sides of the bowl. The edges are folded over, just like they are on the old brass bedwarmer I have, and very irregular. The whole pan is pretty irregular in shape too.

Here is the copper side after cleaning. I still need to get some rust remover on the handle, but I'm really pleased with how it came out. There was a pretty unbelieveable amount of tarnish and dirt on this. Looks good hanging over the meat safe!
 


Here is the tinned side:



Up close on Mr. Fish, note the wear to the design on the top wall, the fish and the copper coming through the tin. You can also get a look at the silvery metal of the handle now. Definitly not iron.




Antiqueaholic in recovery

ironlord1963

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2330
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • View Profile
    • Ironlord's Treasure Chest
Re: Copper & Iron Fish Pan: Trash or Treasure?
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2010, 12:34:56 am »
A Good Catch IMO, Think it would look good in your kitchen for sure.  Once again nice work

talesofthesevenseas

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6124
  • Karma: +35/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Copper & Iron Fish Pan: Trash or Treasure?
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2010, 01:11:10 am »
Thanks Ironlord, I'm likin' it!
Antiqueaholic in recovery

talesofthesevenseas

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6124
  • Karma: +35/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Copper & Iron Fish Pan: Trash or Treasure?
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2010, 01:41:38 am »
I did some reading up on tinned copper pans. Apparently they are not the health risk I though they were, the danger is more in the green corrosion that develops on the copper, if the info below is correct. Back in the day "Tinkers" would go door to door and offer to re-tin pans. The tinning does wear off with time and it's difficult to find someone to re-tin anymore. There's an interesting discussion on it here:
http://www.jamieoliver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=29914&p=1

and more on tin here:
http://www.madehow.com/Volume-4/Tin.html
Antiqueaholic in recovery

waywardangler

  • Guest
Re: Copper & Iron Fish Pan: Trash or Treasure?
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2010, 08:08:07 am »
This looks a lot better and more authentic in the after pics than it did in the before pics.  Nice find and nice job, Tales!

jondar

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 270
  • Karma: +4/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Copper & Iron Fish Pan: Trash or Treasure?
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2010, 08:15:54 am »
I, like you, believe the pan is very old.  The handle appears like the one on the skillet my stepdad's grandfather carried in the Civil War in the 40th Illinois Infantry regiment.  On his there is a loop formed at the extremety of the handle and my stepdad told me that his grandfather stuck the ramrod of his musket in that to hold it over the fire and "make hoe-cake."  It is "hallmarked" on the handle with two 1/2" fishes arranged like the Gemini sign.  In trying to research this "hallmark" the closest thing I could find was that the sign of the fishes was the mark of a group of Jewish iron workers of that period.  Further I Knoweth Not.