Early American Chairs... ?

[jbartlet]

The story is that these chairs once belonged to Philip Livingston (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Livingston) who is a documented relative.  They're called "the Livingston Chairs" and just came down from the 104 yr old great grandmother's estate this year.

Based on these pictures can anyone estimate an age/era? 

Feel free to chime in on a value estimate if you want (we're completely clueless even of a ball park and they're still being used as regular sit around on type chairs and there small children often around) or advice on restoring/reupholstering them.

[talesofthesevenseas]

I believe the casters would had to have been added in the 19th or 20th century if I'm not mistaken. I don't know a lot about furniture so my only comment is that the arms look like the style I've seen on what are called "Lincoln rockers". There is probably a better term than that.

If they were mine I wouldn't touch the finish. It looks great and I think you would devalue them if you did. The upholstery I would replace. It's not period correct to the furniture and probably isn't a good match for your house if you just inherited them.

It is wonderful to have a piece of family history and i'll have my fingers crossed that these do turn out to be from the right time period to have belonged to your ancestor.

[mart]

Refinishing the wood would devalue the chairs. Just looking at style, I would guess they are possibly made between 1880 and 1900 as the scroll of the arms look to be made in several pieces .  Could be just the pic but I don`t think they are made of one solid piece. Correct me if  I am wrong but its just the way the pic looks. That style was popular even up to the 30`s. Difficult to date without seeing actual construction. Those casters would be original to the piece in my opinion.

[Oceans64]

I just returned a book to the library yesterday entitled something like "New England Furniture....".  There were two chairs pictured together that were very similar in style to yours and may have been from the 18th Century or very early 19th. Most of the items shown were of this time period.  I will probably go back later this week and will check out the book again if no one comes up with an answer. My on-line library database is down right now but if i can get the name of the book I'll post later.

In the meantime, I'll keep looking.

Here's the Book: "New England furniture : the Colonial era : selections from the Society for the Preservation of New England Antiquities"
Author: Jobe, Brock.

[hosman321]

When I first read Oceans' post I thought, "No way...they couldn't be that old." But when I sit back and try to envision them with different upholstery, they really do look like they could be from that period. The patina (age) on them is wonderful. At first glance, these looked very 1940's to me but looks can be very deceiving! I think they were reupholstered around the 1940's. I wish Jacon or D&B would chime in on these ones.

[Oceans64]

I see this scroll arm being attributed to Duncan Phyfe and it was popular in the 1930's - made a comeback?  Duncan lived from 1768-1854 so he wasn't designing furniture in 1930...  How this style was attributed to him I don't know. Duncan came to America in 1794 from Scotland.  I haven't seen where he originally built the scroll armed chair (he very well could have).  He took inspiration from Thomas Sheraton.

[hosman321]

Do you think that maybe these were originally not upholstered at all? Maybe they just had a wooden seat and spindles in the back? I may be wrong, but this style of upholstery doesn't look right for that period (if they are from that period).
Jbartlett, can you feel spindles (bars) on the back of the chairs when you press from both sides?

[mart]

Around 1900 there was a resurgence in period furniture and much was reproduced but with different construction techniques. I see ads weekly, at least around here, for Duncan Phyfe furniture for sale. I have yet to see an original piece for the prices they sell for. But that is what the ad states and many believe that they are truly Duncan Phyfe pieces rather than in that particular style and made much later.
When I first looked at them I wondered if they were part of a set of dining chairs rather than just occassional chairs.

[Oceans64]

They have definitely been reupholstered...  The multicolored fabric is from the 90's (maybe late 80-'s) and popular then.

[jbartlet]

Wow! I knew these might generate some buzz, but wow.

I don't have the documentation but they absolutely no doubt older than 1900 - like i said they are well-established in the family going least to the great-great grandparents.  There's a story about a couple being sat down in those chairs and being told to either get married or quit messing around, so they got married. 

The spiral in pieces is because it's broken, the other arm (left hand as you sit in it) is solid (one piece).   The reupholstery was likely done pre-1980's since it is quite worn already and I don't think these have seen much use in the last 20 yrs. 

Is there any way to distinguish Phyfe original from later copies?  Like a stamp, tool marking, anything like that? 

I can't get my hands on them right now to feel for spindles.  However, in the brief time i was (gingerly) sitting in them I remember a full/solid back - it's definitely not just fabric stretched over spindles.

[talesofthesevenseas]

Love that story! I agree, this would be a good one to hear from Jacon4 or D&B.

[jbartlet]

I randomly emailed Leigh Keno without expecting a response at all but he replied within 12 hrs of the email.

He says "These chairs date from circa 1850- 1870   Hope this helps. Nice that they are still in your family.  Livingston is such an illustrious name!"

so that basically settles it since I'll take his word over anything! 

I agree they should be reupholstered and not refinished for sure.  maybe restored a bit in the upper parts that are chipped. 

[Oceans64]

Excellent!  Very cool that Keno responded!

When you get them, I think I would strip the upholstery off myself VERY, VERY carefully.  This way you can see the construction and document with pics.  If you're lucky, remnants of former fabrics may be present. If you are incredibly lucky, there may be a signature.

The problem with associating this with Phyfe is Phyfe's work is more decorated than your piece.  If you think of Federal Tables, they usually had reeded legs...  So did most of Phyfe's work from what I can tell.  The curled arm does seem to be associated with him tho.... I'll still look in that book of New England Furniture and see who the maker was...

Thanks for posting these.  It was fun to learn about Phyfe and much easier when you have an actual piece to compare it to! 

[KC]

Without closeups of construction - it makes this even more an opinionated guessing game!  My first impression without reading historical information was that they were early 1900's.

Isn't it amazing how upholstery materials can make/break/date a piece?!  Agree, to have it reupholstered with "timely" material and DO NOT REFINISH THE WOOD! 

You really need to get documentation for the pieces and if any pics in old photos for family purposes and valuation.

A true family treasure!

[talesofthesevenseas]

Also print out Leigh Keno's email and keep it with the chairs. That assessment is part of their history now.