How do sellers protect themselves against fraud

[Dean Perdue]

Hi-

I'm interested in knowing if selling higher dollar items on eBay on is safe.

I know about registered and insured mailing of a item,shipping to a confirmed adress,and screening out out buyers based on the quality and quanity of their feedback.
 
But what would prevent a dishonest buyer from purchasing a high dollar item, receiving and signing for the package, then claiming the contents were not there and replacing the original item with a copy or item of the same weight and size and claiming they were ripped off and having PayPal stand behind them.

Other than pictures of the seller putting the item into the mailing package (could easily be swapped out so I don't know if this would even give a shread of legit proof) what can be done to verify the contents of a package so this kind of thing doesn't happen?

Thanks for any input.

[waywardangler]

There is probably nothing you can do to absoulutely protect yourself against an unscrupulous buyer intent on fraud.

Maybe have a third party, such as a mailing store, pack and ship the item?  Then at least there is a third party involved to verify what was packed and the condition it was in when packed.

Unfortunately, there are a few seller horror stories out there and PayPal and eBay seem to back up buyers rather than sellers.  If it is over $250, you must use Signature Confirmation so the recipient has to sign.  I would rather use Registered Mail but I am not sure if that is covered with PayPal.

In any case, I would use a totally separate bank account and a credit card with a low ($500-$1000) limit and have that for eBay and PayPal.  I would transfer funds from PayPal to the bank account as soon as possible and withdraw the money from the account and deposit it somewhere else.  At least that would limit your liability.

[Dean Perdue]

Thanks Wayward.

[Oceans64]

This:

Maybe have a third party, such as a mailing store, pack and ship the item?  Then at least there is a third party involved to verify what was packed and the condition it was in when packed.

Sounds like an excellent plan and probably your best line of defense....

[Dean Perdue]

I even looked into eBays recommended escrow service (escrow.com) but it still doesn't sound like the contents of the package would be verified so I'm still in the same boat. Nothing at all would change except of course paying $178. for the service that would be useless, as I see it, in this case.

I've had pretty good luck so far but after reading seller's unfortunate experiences it became something to worry about.

With some of the real big money items on eBay I can't see how these sellers are willing to take these kind of risk.Maybe they know something I don't.

[mart]

You will never have a guarantee when dealing on ebay. Most people are honest, but you run a risk of finding those few that are not if you are dealing in high dollar items. I depend a lot on feedback ratings as reputable dealers can`t afford negatives if they expect people to sell to them or buy from them.One thing that might help is to have a person witness the item and its condition, the packing , and the actual mailing/shipping of the item.  At least they could not say it wasn`t sent. Some things would help to have an appraisal before listing. But that is going to cut into any profit you might make. Personally, I think that I would stick with less expensive items on ebay. Deal with a reputable auction house for all the others.

[Dean Perdue]

Thanks Mart-
I wonder if you can refuse a buyer who your just not sure of based on his feedback if its stated in your listing that you have the right to cancel bids based on feeback.

[waywardangler]

I think you can do that before but not after, Dean.  There are some parameters when you list but I think it is with negative feedback and 0 feedback not just a low number of feedback.  What really  bothers me, is non-paying bidder strikes do not show up on feedback anymore so a bidder can have 100% positive feedback and still be a non-paying bidder on items.  I had it happen to me and there was nothing I could do about it except report the non-paying bidder.  Unless they get so many strikes in so many months, non-paying bidders get a free ride, so-to-speak.  The only safeguard is to block that username from bidding on one's auctions again.  They wasted your time, wasted your auction, and nothing happens to them.

From ebay...http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/buyer-requirements.html
You can block buyers from bidding on or purchasing your items by specifying buyer requirements. You can block buyers who:
Don't have a PayPal account
Have unpaid items recorded on their account
Have a primary shipping address in countries you don’t ship to
Have reportedly violated eBay policies
Have a Feedback score lower than the number you specify
Are currently winning or have bought 1-100 of your items in the last 10 days (you can specify the number)
You can also block buyers based on their user ID by creating a blocked list.


Have a Feedback score lower than the number you specify - not necessarily true.  You must select from ebay's set number and the lowest (highest?) is a -1.  There is no way that I can see to prevent bidders with only 15 feedback from bidding, for example.

[mart]

Like Wayward said you just can`t block a bidder without setting some parameters in your buyer requirements. At least I don`t think so but I have never worried about anything I sell. If I can`t afford to lose it,, I don`t list it. I just do small stuff. Its fun for me, not necessarily a money making thing. 

[waywardangler]

You can block specific usernames from bidding on your 'blocked bidders list'.

[mariok54]

"If I can`t afford to lose it,, I don`t list it. I just do small stuff. Its fun for me, not necessarily a money making thing."

Even if I can afford to  lose a small amount it still riles me when I get ripped off and Ebay seem to be indifferent. I've been ripped off both as a buyer and a seller and came out worst off in both cases.
As a buyer I spotted something that I knew was easily worth between $200 - $300, bidded and was prepared to go up to at least $100. I was really chuffed when I won it for only $35 !!! I paid within minutes of end of auction and waited... and waited. After a couple of days of not hearing anything I e-mailed the seller... and waited... a week later got an e-mail apologising that they'd been away and would have the item in the post to me first thing Monday. I e-mailed 'Thank you' and waited  and waited. Week later I e-mailed concerned that I'd not received anything, and as they lived only 10 miles away I was more than happy to collect in person and wouldn't even expect a refund on my p&p. Got a response saying they had been poorly and it would be in the post next day via recorded. I e-mailed them with a thanks, hope you're feeling better and asked if they could e-mail me the Tracking number so that I wouldn't have to trouble them again. I waited and waited.. You've got it, it never arrived and I never heard from them again. Eventually opened a claim against them through ebay, and finally got something in the region of 1/2 of what I paid refunded, Ebay taking the rest in charges!!! This was before they changed the system. The seller held onto the item which they'd sold for a price way under its value and I lost, as I see it, not $20  dollars but possibly as much as $260 as the item was legally mine and stolen from me.

As a seller I had an item up for grabs and made it quite clear in the posting that any buyers outside the UK should contact me first for a P&P quote, and the P&P given was only for 1st Class Recorded UK mainland. I had quite a few items ending on the same day and perhaps should have been a little more vigilant. the item sold (for a little less than I'd hoped for, but not much) the buyer paid immediately and I e-mailed thanking for prompt payment and guaranteed that the item would be in the post first thing next morning. Only then did I realise that the buyer was in India. I e-mailed them to say that they really should have contacted me first, but as a goodwill gesture I would send the item out at no extra cost. It actually cost me an extra £4 ($6) to post it recorded. Even at that the estimated delivery date was anything up to 28 days. I e-mailed the buyer and informed them of this. A weel later I got an e-mail saying it had not yet arrived ... and the following week another (ignoring my replies re length of delivery)... after a month I got another e-mail saying that it hadn't arrived. I tried to check with Royal Mail but they could only track the item within the UK, I had to try to find out what happened at the other end.
By this point I had complained to Ebay that the buyer was able to pay for the item + P&P when they had obviously invoiced the buyer and telling them to contact me re P&P. They denied all responsibility and said that it was up to me and I could have refunded the buyer's money!!! At this point it was too late, and I was advised to refund and await the results of the 'investigation' into the item by Royal Mail. I had and still have 100% feedback and didn't want to jeopardise that. I shall be cold in my grave before I hear anything re the item.... this was 18 months ago!!! So I lost the item and also roughly $10 in P&P. Do I believe the buyer? From his behaviour I hate to say that 'I don't'.

Ebay?  Let's hope someone else comes up with some serious competition!!!!

[mart]

On the item not received did you read feedback on that seller?  Scams like this are occassionally found on ebay. Many times the seller takes a pic off the net and never had the item to begin with. Usually they repeat the same sale over and over using a variety of user names . Some just repeat the same sale over and over with the one user name.
 I usually try to see if the same pic/description shows up in other listings.  They are not really inventive in some things.

Thanks for reminding me that I need to put USA only on shipping.

[mariok54]

Hi Mart... I did, and he had about 20 positives, but over a long period of time and mainly as a buyer. I don't think that it was a scam, I just feel that he felt absolutely gutted at the item realising so little. The problem for him was that it was incorrectly listed, the photograph looked as if it had been taken with an ancient cell phone, and the description looked as if it had been written by a five year old .. nothing to create confidence in prospective buyers.  We live and learn .. and learn ... and learn ...

[Texasbadger]

I dont normally use Eban due to its firearms/parts,,,,german militaria rules, but as a rule in general when a seller sends payment by whatever means I get online and use switchboard.com or something similar to see if the shipping info they provided and the internet listings match up.  Shipping to a different address that listed makes me nervous.  If it matches then you have a trail to follow should there be problems.

[mart]

Unfortunately many people do not realize that a sale on ebay is a contract and will in most circumstances, hold up in court. If I had been that concerned about its final selling priceI would have put a reserve on that listing.  Many people starting out on ebay have no idea what the rules are or what you can do to protect yourself if an item bottoms out. Did you think about calling this seller and trying to work out something on the price. Of course that would depend on how bad you wanted it. He could have relisted with a BIN and still been within ebay`s rules.