Candlesticks? Candlestick Lamps? What are these? Age?

[Hawkslady91]

Please help me identify these?  I picked up the pair at a garage sale with the intent of using them outdoors as candle holders.  After several people commented on their uniqueness and started asking about them I tried finding anything I could on the internet.  No luck.  Took them to a local antique dealer for identification, "Are you interested in saling them?"  "Do you really have the pair?"  They appear to be really old.  You will have to have them appraised, we really can't tell you anything?.... Ok no help there.  So, if anyone out there knows what these are, age, origin, value etc.  I would really appreciate it.  We have spent at least two weeks researching with no luck.  They are 21" high.  They have a coat of flat black paint on them.  They appear to be hand made, not manufactured.  The metal underneath is some type of brass, bronze, gold, or mix of the three.  If you flick the metal underneath a gong resonates.  It's quite a beautiful sound.  I have attached pictures.  Thank you in advance for any and all help.

[mart]

Can you see any metal showing on the bottom??  Do they look like they have been painted with a modern flat black paint?  Have you looked for a name on them ? Might be hard to find if they have been painted but I would look closely for a signature.

[talesofthesevenseas]

Those look very Islamic in origin to me, especially the designs on the bases. My guess would be that these are Egyptian, Moroccan, Syrian, or somewhere in the Middle East. I don't know if you'll ever be able to find a matching pair for comparison, they look like something bought in one of the bazaars, and hand-crafted by a local craftsman. Those are very cool. No idea on the age. There are no screws attaching one piece to the other, right?

[Hawkslady91]

The paint is a flat black paint.  It will rub off with a little work.  Have not wanted to take too much of it off.  Do not know if it modern paint.  Do not know how to tell.

There are no screws attaching them together.  Researched Andirons for a long time with no luck.  There are what appear to be screw holes on the top of each piece.  Hence "Candlestick Lamps", but do not know if that is original to the piece or something added later.

Thank you for the replies.

[Hawkslady91]

As to a signature, we can find no marks or signatures of any kind.

[mart]

If the paint comes off it would not be original to the piece I don`t think.  They didn`t use flat black !! Or at least none I have seen. Original color would probably be brass in my opinion. Could be something else but a lot of brass was used. From what I can see,, middle eastern, would be my guess as well. The holes in the top would have, more than likely, have been for a metal pin that held the candle in place.  If you think they might have been lamps ( I doubt it but who knows) there would also be a corresponding hole in the bottom for wire. That would date them as fairly recent manufacture !!

[Hawkslady91]

clarification on the paint.  The paint if that is what it is comes off chalky, it feels like charcoal in water.  My husband has never seen paint like this. 

[mart]

Try spraying them with a cleaner like 409 or whatever you have and see if it comes off easily. Possibly soot or a water based paint like chalkboard paint !! If its a water based paint you can just soak them in warm water and a little dish soap for an hour or so and it will start bubbling and releasing.

[mariok54]

 If you think they might have been lamps ( I doubt it but who knows) there would also be a corresponding hole in the bottom for wire. That would date them as fairly recent manufacture !!

I must have been tired when I first viewed the pics as I thought that the third photo was of the top (I know, nothing like it) But as it is of the bottom, then there is a hole at the base of each, so it could be for the cord? But with the open ''fretwork' (can't think of the right word this morning') I would have expected there to be a centre 'conduit' to hide any cord ... ? I think I need more coffee!

[mart]

Good morning Mario !! Guess we are the only two up at this hour. I didn`t see a hole in the bottom but that black paint makes everything blend together.  Could get a wire and start from the top and see if it goes all the way to bottom .

[mariok54]

Good Morning Mart,
Is it me, or is that not a hole beneath the stick in the 3rd photo?
I'm up as I'm on this side of the pond! 

[mart]

I think that what you are seeing is part of the shadow from the base. Look at that tip that is showing color. Does it look like brass to you ?? Right behind that tip is where I would expect a hole to be if they were lamp bases. Would not make sense to have it off center. Would it I have rewired many lamps and light fixtures and they always seem to take a direct route where it is easiest to get the wire through. Could be wrong on Mid Eastern pieces though !!

[mariok54]

You could be right, Mart .... Looking at it is a bit like looking at one of those optical illusions ... 'now it looks like an old many carrying kindle'  'now it looks like a dog licking its privates' 

I think that hole is pretty central, it just looks off centre because of the angle of the photo which takes in a lot of one of the legs, but it could be my eyes! Even then, there's no guarantee that it is a hole and not just a recess

Hawkslady should be able to tell us.

[KC]

I am wondering if it isn't a hole that is in a concave area where there is a bolt attaching the base to the top!

Could you please post a pic of the underside?

I am leery of origin/age at his pint without this information!

Also, flat black paint isn't typical...however.. .at one point they did putty items to change the color!

[mart]

LOL !!  Mario, would you care for another cup of coffee I have had a pot already so my eyes are a bit more focused now !!  That central rod or stick as you call it, may be conduit although it looks solid to me but may just be the pic . Maybe I do need another cup.