Who's responsible?

[hosman321]

Ok, I'm a little infuriated. I bought these sheets on ebay. Tracking number says they were delivered on Friday. We were home all day Friday and it did not come here, I know that much. FINALLY got ahold of the post office today and they said, "If it says it was delivered, then it was delivered." I told them we just got a new girl a few days before. The first package she brought us, she didn't even know what she was doing or how to scan it and was really confused. I asked if she possibly brought it back to the post office or delivered it to the wrong house. He said, "No, not likely." Pretty much not willling to accept that she could have screwed up, which my post office has done about 20 times. Who is responsible for this lost package? I know I am not. Just because it didn't have insurance doesn't mean I am going to eat $90.00. Suggestions?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=300518362130&si=cwgtvqOmS7zeG7E%252Febp7koPohzs%253D&viewitem=

[talesofthesevenseas]

I think you can still file a claim with the post office even if you did not have insurance. The seller is not responsible, the post office is. You'll have to go down in person and fill out a claim form. Be sure you print out the tracking info and bring it with you. Let us know how this goes.

[talesofthesevenseas]

http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/609.htm

[waywardangler]

Hosman, you need to talk to the carrier supervisor in charge of your route.  You may need to go down to the PO to do this rather than over the phone.  The supervisor needs to find out what carrier was on your route on the day it was "delivered" and talk to that carrier. Be persistent and if you have to, be a pest. Filing a claim on a package without insurance will not get you any indemnity. I worked for the USPS for 31 1/2 yrs and did insurance claims for about 6.  If you need to, PM me. I would like to see the tracking info.

[Oceans64]

I hate to say it but the seller may have to refund you per eBay policy - and rightly so to a degree.  If you ordered from Nordstrom's and didn't get it...  Just the cost of doing business.  No matter what, I would email the seller ASAP and let them know what happened AND that you may need their help with the PO.  If it get's resolved GREAT...  If not, you've included them in the process and they know it's coming.

[Dean Perdue]

I hate to say it but the seller may have to refund you per eBay policy - and rightly so to a degree.

I think it would be wrong to expect the seller to be out the sheets and the money too on someone else's error.
They don't have big money or buying power behind them like a big name like Nordstroms. And out of that money your seller paid for sheets,PayPal, & selling fees to boot.

If you dispute it with PayPal the first thing they will do is look at the delivery confirmation that shows it was delivered. Why should an innocent party, you or the seller, take a hit? Why not put the blame where the blame belongs??

Is there a possibility the package was left with or delivered wrongly to a  neighbor or maybe tucked away in a obscure spot? Did you by chance confront your 'new girl' carrier about this?

Really stinks to go through all this frustration for packages but I think we've all been there more than once.
Then going to the post office for some answers and having them treat you like the bad guy adds insult to injury

Hope it all works out with minimal aggravation and hassle.
I would suggest posting your situation on eBays Seller Central forum and seeing what they have to say about it.
I have read that on occasion Paypal will foot the bill (hopefully not your seller) when buyer or seller is not at fault.GL

[hosman321]

Thank you all for your input and suggestions. We are going into the post office on Friday to talk to them. In my opinion it is not my fault nor the seller's. It's the post office's fault because something happened while in their care.

I watched a court show (Judge Judy) a few weeks ago and the same thing happened with an eBay transaction. I know she doesn't know everything but she made the seller refund the money. She said that by law, the seller is responsible for that package until it is in the buyer's hands. If the buyer doesn't receive it, it is up to the seller to refund the money. The seller can then go take it up with the post office but it's not the buyer's responsibility to figure it out. In her theory, I had a contract to pay for an item. The seller's part of our contract was to assure I receive that item. Not just that they ship it out, but that I receive it. I did not have a contract with the post office. Doesn't make sense and is not fair at all but sometimes sellers take that chance and take the hit. I'll let ya'll know what happens. If it was delivered to the wrong address, I bet an untrustworthy person kept those nice sheets. Seems like they would have given the package back the next day. 

[Dean Perdue]

Gotta love Judge Judy always telling it like it is and rippin someone a new one.
Guess I can see the logic but still makes someone at fault have none of the responsibility and those who are not to blame pay for it all.Fits right in with how our American system is run.

[hosman321]

Amen Dean. Then again, since I paid money to the post office for a service, don't they have to fully carry out that service? Isn't that kind of a contract? Confusing. Lesson to self: pay for insurance every time.

[waywardangler]

I agree with hosman's point on delivery. Her contract is with the seller. The seller contracted with the USPS (the third party carrier) to deliver the package to hosman. The third party carrier did not deliver properly. The seller owes hosman and the seller needs to take this up with the third party carrier. It does not matter if the seller is out for the cost of the goods, fees, etc. That is a hazard we all accept when we "hire" a third party to deliver our goods and the third party does not complete their part of the deal. Purchasing insurance with the third party carrier would cover this loss to the sender.

If the item was insured (which it was not), by USPS rules, the seller/sender is paid and not the addressee unless the sender signs off and agrees that the addressee be paid for the insurance claim. So by USPS' default, their delivery contract is with the party hiring them (the seller/sender). Hosman did not hire the third party carrier, the seller/sender did. Judgement in favor of hosman.

[Dean Perdue]

Guess PayPal will decide that.
Maybe shows how the unions really are a bad idea for America if this is the kind of work they do (not).
Paid for a service, then expect others to cover their behinds when they drop the ball.

[hosman321]

I agree wayward.
If I order a sofa from Walmart and it does not arrive on delivery day, I am not going to jump through hoops and be the one to contact the shipping company. That would be Walmart's problem. If it gets lost with their shipping company, I am not going to ask for my money back from the shipper, I am going to get my refund from Walmart. They'd sure hear a mouthfull if they told me to deal with the problem myself. Just makes sense...

[Oceans64]

RE Seller responsibility, I don't think it's necessarily "fair" but I do think it's the way it works. Either way, I think you should let the seller know what's going on so they aren't blindsided by this.  There maybe something they can do on their end or at least start researching their options.

At the very least, they wont spend the $$...

[waywardangler]

I pack all my items extremely well and include a packing slip inside. On expensive items, I pay for insurance. I consider it my responsibility to do this for the buyer. I also do not consider a deal done until it is in the hands of the buyer and they are satisfied with everything. I pay for Delivery Confirmation for all shipments except expensive items which may go Registered or Signature Confirmation. The one thing to remember about Delivery Confirmation is, it does not give any information on where it was delivered.  If the carrier makes an error and delivers it to the wrong address or leaves it on the door stoop and it is stolen, the buyer still does not have the item they paid for. My contract is with the buyer to deliver what they paid for. If I do not, I must refund the buyer their cost. I realize this and I take a risk when I contract with a third party to deliver the item and I do not purchase insurance to protect this risk.  On any item valued over $250, PayPal REQUIRES Signature Confirmation or the sender has no recourse if the buyer claims they did not receive it.  You can use Delivery Confirmation but PayPal will still take the buyers side. I assume most people are honest and hope for the best. This is a hobby for me and if I get burned too much, I will simply quit selling.
As a side note, I had a fishing tackle collector friend that did not receive an insured parcel with Del. Conf. and filed a claim with the PO. The PO claimed because the Del. Conf. showed it was delivered, they were clear of any responsibility. Wrong. I counseled him on how to pursue this and to be persistent because Del. Con. does not show delivery to the addressee, only that it was delivered...somewhe re. He won his insurance claim.

[mariok54]

I wish that all sellers were as conscientious as you, Wayward, and probably as most of us are. My wife has been looking for an old sewing box for some time, but we've never seen a nice one  (or any to think of it) when we've strolled around the Antique Centres.

I saw one on ebay last weekend which seemed to tick all the boxes. It was collect only. I contacted the buyer and asked whether he would post it out if I paid carriage, the norm for boxes seemed to be £10. He said he would, but £15 would be nearer the cost. I agreed as I thought that if the listing stated 'pick up only' then it would put off an awful lot of bidders, so it would be a case of swings and roundabouts.
I won it for £19, probably half of what it could have gone for, so I was happy. I paid for the item via Paypal, and then had to pay for the carriage separately again via Paypal.
It arrived today, which was pretty impressive, unfortunately in a potato crisp carton, wrapped in an old curtain. Just take a look at the photo! All four legs broken off!!!!!

I've contacted the seller, and just waiting for a response