Broken chair-what should I do?

[ArchitectCS]

Hello everyone,

It's been a long time, but I have another question for you all.  My mother bought this chair a few years ago at a yard sale.  I'm guessing it's a late 19th century piece (but then again I'm always surprised at how wrong I can be).  One day we were moving the chair and happened to lightly bump one of the legs against the wall, causing it to snap off.  I was amazed at how little force was needed to do so.  It was really not much more than a heavy tap.  I've still got the leg, as you can see, but what the heck should I do with the whole thing?  It seems like a nice chair and I'd hate to just throw it out, but is it worth fixing?  Did the leg break because the wood is too dry and brittle?  Right now it's just taking up space at my mom's house and something needs to happen with it.  Any ideas? 

[Oceans64]

I think you are right on the time frame altho I haven't researched.  The question becomes "how well do you like this chair?"  I say this as it will probably take a few hours (more than 2 less than 20), over several days, plus a small investment in upholstery fabric, gimp or trim, glue and maybe some foam padding.  Not to mention if you are anything like me, there will be blood involved...  and it will be your own!  Upholstery nails can be stubborn!!

Not to mention, now that it's been severely broken, it has diminished it's value.. However.......

If you like the chair, and want a fun project, in spite of the blood, I think you are going to have to strip away the upholstery, including the springs and webbing (if present) and see if you can wiggle the pieces apart.  If you can separate the other piece of broken wood from the frame, you may have a chance at saving this.  I say strip the upholstery off first because it's amazing how the innards hold these old frames together. Once you remove it, many times you can gently wrench the frame back and forth a few times and crack the old glue making separation easy.

It'll be some work but I promise you'll learn lots on the way... Maybe that you don't like old chairs!!  hehehe

Check out the project page on some repairs of Sapphires Eastlake Rocker.  Get Sapphires thread. There are 2 others but her details some repair work nicely.

[Oceans64]

BTW...  I should mention my train of thought in case someone has a better idea....

I'm thinking you need to separate the rest of the leg from the frame so you can screw and glue the broken pieces back together from behind then re-glue the entire leg back to the frame and possibly attach with a plate, screw, etc.  This way you could hide most of the repairs....

[waywardangler]

If that leg fits perfectly dry fitted, you can glue and clamp that leg as is and it will be as strong as it was before. Use a good wood glue...not white Elmer's. It will need to be clamped from 2 directions. If not done properly, the leg will be crooked and the chair will look repaired. If some large slivers have gone missing and the leg does not fit good dry fitted, a professional will need to make a new leg. That probably makes it an expensive repair at that point.

I think the leg was already cracked when you "lightly bumped" the leg into the wall. That bump caused the fracture to complete itself.

[talesofthesevenseas]

Just curious- people sat on it and a light tap broke the leg? Or had it never been sat upon? Looks like you're lucky no one went tumbling!

[cogar]

I agree with Wayward's fix ......... and you could even put a couple drywall screws in from the backside to really stabilize it.

[Oceans64]

Agree with using screws to reinforce for safety which is why I think you need to take apart. JMO tho and I could be wrong.  

If you only glue, I would use something along the lines of liquid nails.  I used a strong wood glue on my chair - supposedly stronger than the wood - clamped cured etc and the hubby was still able to break the glue bond by moving the arms back and forth (laterally) in a not so gentle manner.   The pressure put on the front leg of the chair is increased when getting up from it and similar to rocking forward IMHO...

[cogar]

Oceans, I really don't think that is a very good idea to even think about trying to take it apart. You might as well throw it away to begin with ...... rather than after the fact.

They used those dowel pins for a reason and unless all of them have loosened up and are "wiggly" ..... then something is going to "bleed" .... like the old saying "come or bleed" ........ iffen you try to take it apart. The other 3 will end up looking like the broken one.

[waywardangler]

Yes, I agree with cogar, do not try and take that broken piece off. It is securely glued to the frame and trying to take that off may crack more of what is left. That is a clean break with no dirt or anything on it and properly glued and clamped, will be stronger than the original wood. Oceans, you probably had a problem because you were dealing with old joints, old glue film, and maybe even some remnant vinegar. A new wood joint properly glued and clamped will not break right on the glue line. Wood will split off along another plane that isn't as strong.

[Oceans64]

I still disagree but I'll post that at the end so as not to confuse...

There is an article here that looks like a good solution if you don't want to remove upholstery: http://www.accuratebuilding.com/publications/recipes/carpentry/broken_furniture_leg15.pdf

In a nutshell, you tape the leg together, drill a few small holes holes with a nail until it protrudes out each end of the crack - then glue (altho personally, I might glue first in this case).  Once dry, you clip the protruding nails.  This would be good in this situation since the majority of the break is at the top and you can embed the nail into the side of the chair, clip the nail from the front, countersink and cover with matching filler...

My main issue with only using glue is that I wouldn't trust it for safety since it is on a load bearing part of the chair.  Maybe liquid nails but I would still want reinforcement -

________

The reason I think the joint needs to be checked (sans it's upholstery and inner hardware) goes to the cause of the crack in the first place.  There is a good chance it is loose- it's an old chair.  If it has a little wiggle, the force (of sitting in the chair) is going to be spread sideways or backwards (as in this case) vrs straight down.  Webbing used internally does wonders for hiding how loose a chair really is and just a little wiggle would redistribute the load.

To clarify, I'm not saying take a hammer and chisel to the thing, I'm saying remove the upholstery, springs, etc grab it on both sides with one hand and give it a good shake.  If you can loosen the joint in that manner, it needs to be repaired - and again, was probably the cause of the original crack... Think about how you get up from a chair.  You exert pressure on the front legs.

If the joint is tight, AWESOME!!  At least you don't have to worry about it re-cracking. In addition, removing the upholstery will give you a better surface to clamp (unless you have bar clamps which many people don't). Cost of upholstery will be somewhere in the neighborhood of $10-$15. For me - it would mean peace of mind and I could chalk up the original crack to prior trauma.

That said, we may just have to agree to disagree  

[waywardangler]

Oceans, nails used in construction, as described, are used as a clamp. They do not offer any support to the leg. They are used to hold the pieces of wood in place until the glue cures. They serve no other purpose. Many large legs, wide pieces of wood, and thick pieces of wood, are made up of laminated wood held together with glue. Many wood archery bow limbs and handles are laminated under pressure with only glue. The limbs receive extreme stress when flexed. There are no metal nails, screws or fasteners in the limbs or handles for support. They may be backed with fiberglass overlays. Properly glued and clamped wood joints can take the repeated stress of sitting without failing. I have an old chair I use in the garage that was wobbly and "fixed" by a previous owner with 'L' metal brackets and wood screws. I took it apart, re-glued and re-doweled the legs, left all the metal "strengtheners" off it, and use it all the time. It has not shown any weakness since being repaired by me.
Wood moves with the weather. Metal also moves but to a much lesser extent. Putting wood and metal together and you have two dissimilar materials that do not move the same.
I guess we are disagreeing on how to fix this leg. 

[fancypants]

From the images posted , it seems as if this leg did have cracks , prior to snapping off (dark areas within the break , at top & along the break) completely .

It may be that the wood in the leg has shrunken/expanded in critical areas , at a rate different than the entire piece , making non-identical mating surfaces for the repair job .
This always results in a repaired joint weaker than the original (due to air/glue/wood gaps) .

Perhaps reglueing this leg (including cogars' suggestion to use screws - with a pilot hole drilled first) will be good enough for a chair that is intended for 'display' only .
I say this because of the location of the break , pretty much at the end of a fulcrum , is a joint that is required to be very strong .

I'd be more than a bit uncomfortable having a loved guest or family member plop their rear-end onto a chair that had been simply reglued , in consideration of the location of the break - I'd be afraid that they'd get speared by the leg components , in the event of a re-break .

The suggestion for having another replacement leg made (& disassembly & refitting & glueing/refinishing) would be the most solid repair , but far from the cheapest .

[cogar]

Ya’ll worry too much. First of all, the leg didn’t break because of vertical weight on the seat. My guess is that it broke due to lateral pressure at the bottom of the leg where the roller is when it was moved (pushed/pulled) across the floor while someone was sitting in it …… and the wheel suddenly stopped rolling due to a rug, a crack, a lip or some other object.

Anyway, as Wayward said, all you need is that white, water soluble Carpenters Glue to fix it.

And I will guarantee you ….. with an added bet of a cold six-pack of Bud Light ….. that if it is glued correctly ….. there is no one fat enough and/or heavy enough in the US who could sit down on that chair …… and shear those two (2) dowel pins off. It ain’t going to happen.

But if that chair is again used as a “scooter” with a 100+ pound person sitting on it, then yes, another broken leg will likely result.

[gingertomantiques]

No need for screws or nails, the joints were designed to be knocked apart with a soft hammer. I suspect a previous repair with the wrong glue has caused the split
You need animal glue,
because most animal glues are soluble in water, they can be used for joints which may need to be separated for repairs, thereby making joints easily reversible and repairable.
Adhesive products such as animal glue, allows joints to separate easily with the application of heat and steam. So because of the ability of this adhesive to stick to itself, a repairer can apply new glue to the joint and reclamp it. 
PVA glues do not have this property once they've cured, & i suspect this has caused the problem.
Scrape off the old glue, & re glue with animal glue & clamp together. The glue is water based & can be coloured using van dyke crystals, make sure you remove any xs glue before it cures

[ArchitectCS]

Thanks all for the advice.  I'm thinking that I'll try the glueing first.  I really don't want to have to remove the upholstery, especially since it looks pretty old itself. 

My next question is: is this chair going to be worth anything when I'm done with it?  My mom wants to get rid of it.  I'd hate to see it get pitched, but if I can't fix it, is it worth pursuing the matter further?