Author Topic: Little Floral Cloisonnae Plate  (Read 7875 times)

GreenhornGirl

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Little Floral Cloisonnae Plate
« on: October 11, 2011, 08:12:35 pm »
I have this little plate, and I don't know much abuot cloisonnae, so any help/info would be greatly appreciated!  It measures about 3 1/16"-3 1/8".  No marks of any kind that I could find.

snowflake

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Re: Little Floral Cloisonnae Plate
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2011, 08:23:36 pm »
I am busy tonight so can't do a search but this site is amazing if you want to take a look:
http://idcloisonne.com/index.html

ironlord1963

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Re: Little Floral Cloisonnae Plate
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2011, 09:28:33 pm »
     Very pretty Cloisonne plate you have there,  Without marking this may be hard to trace.  These was really popular in the mid to mid late Century time frame and most was made in Japan and Asia area.  I would say this was 50's or 60's in trime frame based on the overall look, and would have a fair Moderate value cause it is well done and hase great colors.  Again I know that is not much to offer, but really sure one nice Plate.

GreenhornGirl

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Re: Little Floral Cloisonnae Plate
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2011, 10:08:09 pm »
Thanks snowflake & ironlord!  Good to see you both, buddies!  :)  It kind of feels like its metal.  What is cloissonae usually made of?  Any idea what the inlay stuff is made out of either?  I was thinking these might be Chinese and a cherry blossom or plum blossom design, but I could be wrong.  Thanks for the date estimate, ironlord!  I'm really foreign to cloisonnae although I love the look, I haven't had any other such pieces yet, so this may be one where I just put it on regular auction instead of a fixed price, I guess.  If I don't keep it  ;D  I think it's darling!

ironlord1963

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Re: Little Floral Cloisonnae Plate
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2011, 11:27:52 pm »
Cloisonne is usually Brass or Copper Base Metal, at least the ones I have seen.  These have been made for many Centuries it seems and in many countries.  But it seem that most we see today are from the mid Century and from Asian Countries, much like the style you have.  I have a earlier plate from about the early centry I have posted here before, that is much different, but is still call Cloisonne.  Generally speaking it is a Enamelled painted surface with wire in between the colors or design.   Also I was told that many worker in Asian was Poisoned by the process during the craze of the mid Century.  I just posted my Cloisonne plate on Ebay today  I'm kind of curious was the end result will be.

GreenhornGirl

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Re: Little Floral Cloisonnae Plate
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2011, 11:45:18 pm »
Wow.  Thank you for that information, as always!  I always look forward to your wealth of knowledge on this board.  :)  Enamel makes sense...I was studying it saying hrmm, you're not marble, I don't think you're ceramic...what are you little tidbits?  I'm very curious to see what yours will go for also...is it small or large?  Maybe you should set a reserve on it...seems things have been kind of slow lately and you don't want it to sell for too low by fluke.  Maybe people are saving up their $$ for the holidays...

Here's one that looks really similar in style to mine.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/B17-VINTAGE-CLOISONNE-DISH-/370341249808?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item563a0f0310I wonder how he obtained his price & those item #s as it looks unmarked like mine.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2011, 11:49:20 pm by GreenhornGirl »

ironlord1963

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Re: Little Floral Cloisonnae Plate
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2011, 11:53:36 pm »
    No I don't set a reserve, I think I started it at 24.99, for sure worth more, but bought it for very little, so I won't be at a loss.  For me it's not always about the profit but the knowledge behind the item.   The  reason I posted it along with some really cool things today is Ebay had 1 penny posting day today, so I put all 421 items up that was ready.   But I will let you know what it goes for.

GreenhornGirl

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Re: Little Floral Cloisonnae Plate
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2011, 11:58:12 pm »
Oh okay...I didn't know how low you started it, a lot of times I see people post things for 1.00 or 99 cents just to make sure it sells.  Yeah, keep me posted!

Ooo, this one looks super similar in style down to the little flare of coloring at the bottom:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-CLOISONNE-WATER-LILY-ZEN-TRAY-PIN-SOAP-DISH-/310321973962?pt=Asian_Antiques&hash=item4840a18aca

That seller has it dated at 1850-1899, origin China.  Hrm.  Wonder how she arrived at that.  I'm still a learning about how to date things--I'm often tempted to message sellers and ask them how they arrived at certain dates.

ironlord1963

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Re: Little Floral Cloisonnae Plate
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2011, 12:15:31 am »
    Not sure I would call that Antique, the few Antique one's I have seen don't look like this, usually much Duller Colors and much more Hand made look to them.  The one she how posted looks Vintage to me.  I have a friend at the Auction House that knows a bit more, maybe next time I see him I will ask about Vintage vs. Antique Look.  Oh and another little funny thing is how it is pronouced.  For some reason I say "Cla zone" but I have been corrected over and over by my Friend and my better have.  It is actually pronounced "Clos a nay".  I was just talking about this thread to her and she had to correct me a couple of times.  :D

GreenhornGirl

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Re: Little Floral Cloisonnae Plate
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2011, 12:26:04 am »
Alright, now I'm inspecting it closer and I'm not sure that its enamel.  Can enamel be sort of speckled like that, almost like cut rock, the way the branches & stems are?  I'm thinking this may be multiple materials, for the background, the petals, and then the branches & trim.  Possibly some glass paste, some enamel, and some sort of semi-precious stone.

I'm reading up on Cloisonne and I'm thinking this is probably Chinese based on the technical quality of the cloisons.  As far as what they're selling for you are right on about moderate value, looks to me.  But oh boy, these are really neat pieces of workmanship and I think I may start collecting them!

Yes, please do ask your friend about that vintage vs. antique look with these.  Because I have seen some very old ones with somewhat bright coloring, like this Ming Dynasty piece: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cloisonneming.jpg
Of course, I'm biased because I want to believe mine is ancient  ;)

I always said "Cloy-za-nay!"  Am I wrong?  LOL @ how everyone says it differently!

fancypants

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Re: Little Floral Cloisonnae Plate
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2011, 12:28:29 am »
Not to splash the mud puddle , but the process used with your cool little item involves fusing & polishing glass , not an enamel process .

The style of the wire-work seems 20th century to me , a best guess would be Chinese origin , but also a piece that took some time to make !

The radial grooves you see in the surface of the bowls' interior are a product of the polishing process , and as a gen'l tip-for-the-future - keep an eye out for old work that has been polished to a point where you can't see 'grooves' .
Getting a fine optical polish job on this type of work is a patient process , where just a bit too much heat/expansion from abrasion (dissimilar mat'ls) will crack the glass bits ....


It's not unusual to see 'rough' finishes , esp. on antique Japanese champleve articles , though .

Bronze , gold , silver , platinum & a buncha diff metals have also been used by artisans , while working with such mat'ls .

Purdy little do-dad , GG !
" Methinks me the 'mental' in sentimental .... "

ironlord1963

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Re: Little Floral Cloisonnae Plate
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2011, 12:37:27 am »
    Aww you got a little mud in me eye  :o    ;D   Actually it is made of a Vitreous Enamel which is basically powered Glass from what I understand, but could be wrong here for sure.  After looking around at all the different pieces the past hour or ss, beginning to wonder about my plate a bit.  It is so much different then the others I have seen.  Guess we need to keep this thread going to work out the kinks per say.  let me post a pic of my plate and see what you all think, But first I need to take a bath all this mud flinging around and all   ;D

ironlord1963

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Re: Little Floral Cloisonnae Plate
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2011, 12:43:59 am »
    Cool knowledge about "champleve" Fancypants, had to look into that a bit, for sure a different technique.  Not sure I can pronouce that but Will have to look for pieces that are champleve.

GreenhornGirl

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Re: Little Floral Cloisonnae Plate
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2011, 12:54:50 am »
*Wipes eye* No, I'm kidding, no splashing at all...I always appreciate everyone's opinions & input!  ;D  Hmm, while I like your tip about how to spot age, at the same time I don't think that I would necessarily want to buy one worn down from polishing.  I like stuff that still looks purdy when it comes to something decorative like that, I think.

Yes ironlord, do post yours!  I really am getting into these now.

fancypants

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Re: Little Floral Cloisonnae Plate
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2011, 12:56:09 am »
Right on , ironlord ... seen plenty in our area , & once in awhile 4-sale o/l @ reasonable (resellable) prices .

At first your piece looked like a blend of champleve & cloisonne styles , but then on a closer look , it seems to be mostly twisted-wire .

Where do you think yours was made , Ironlord ?

I'm thinking of some sorta like this style that I may (or may not ...) have seen So. of the border , in T.J. , back when I was young & could remember things ........

Yours looks more rustic & like folk art than traditional 'factory-built' cloisonne .

Bottom line - it's worth way more when you call it cloisonne , v/s  'metal with melted  glass bits' !

 :D
" Methinks me the 'mental' in sentimental .... "